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Dems gonna Dem

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ITT: Yet more righteous liberals extolling the virtues of not voting for the only party that can actually stand against the Fourth Reich, literally at all.
- You should be sure to tell Newsom’s office he’s alienating voters with his transphobia, because for some people it’s a deal breaker. Telling people to shut up about it isn’t going to work and is also fucked.
  
  It sounds like the backlash is at least working and making its way to him. The California capital started flying the trans flag a few days ago.
  Reddit Link (Yuck Reddit though)
  
  I hadn’t heard that, so I guess that’s something. I just hope they know that waving a flag around and not actually addressing or walking anything back doesn’t change the situation.
  
  Performative actions are just that, performative. Until something of substance happens, they can shove their performances up their ass. They exist only to get us to shut up early.
  
  Yes. Because Trump's transphobia pales in comparison to big bad evil Newsom? Are you for real?
  This reminds me of when so many left-leaning people were tricked into not voting for Harris because things are terrible in the middle east. Yes, Biden/Harris wasn't doing much to stop the murder in Gaza. And yes, they weren't doing anything to stop aid or weapons sales to Israel.
  But, did they think Trump would do better? Did anybody think Trump gives a damn about some poor brown muslims? Of course not! Everyone should have known that Trump would gleefully help to burn Gaza to the ground to make room for a new casino resort and a 200 foot golden statue of himself. At lease with Harris, she'd be under a lot of pressure to do SOMETHING to help the Palestinians. But, do you think Trump is going to be swayed by protests? Get real.
  So what was the plan? What was the point of hoping that Harris would lose? Was it to teach the Dems a "lesson" so that in 4 years they would get back into office and actually help Gaza?
  WTF?!? There are two GIGANTIC flaws with this "plan".
  Project 2025 made it clear that if Trump won, the US would never see a free and fair election ever again. So even if the "lesson" was learned, it wouldn't matter.
  Even if the Dems DID somehow win in 2028, what would they be able to do after 4 YEARS of genocide? Gaza (and possibly the West Bank) would be completely destroyed by then.
  Great friggin plan, genius!!
  The problem is not with Dems. It's with organizations like AIPAC, who will spend millions of dollars to unseat any Democrat who dares to suggests that we should cut off Israel. (just look what happened to Cori Bush in Missouri's 1st district). US politicians are scared shitless of these groups, and of being called anti-semites for disallowing Israel.
  So, to get back to the original point ... If it does come down to Newsom and Trump/Vance in 2028, I will be sad. But I will vote Newsom, because at least I know he isn't going to declare that all trans people are sex criminals, round them up, and send them to "re-education" camps for "treatment". Or, something even worse.
  That is what these fascist will do if they have the power do it. And they are doing everything they can to wear down our constitutional rights in order to do it.
  So, don't be stupid. Don't vote (or non-vote) for the worst possible outcome. Because you are going to absolutely destroy people's lives. Including your own.
  
  Yes. Because Trump's transphobia pales in comparison to big bad evil Newsom? Are you for real?
  Find a place where I said that. You can’t, because you just made it up. I am a trans person living in America in fear because of how Trump’s transphobia has affected my life. I’m not going to leave the country in the next 3 years unless it’s permanently, because I might lose my passport. My access to medication is in peril. I have spoken about all these things extensively. Demanding that be the subject of a post about Gavin Newsom is ridiculous and derailing from the fact that Newsom’s transphobia is also unacceptable.
  This reminds me of when so many left-leaning people were tricked into not voting for Harris because things are terrible in the middle east.
  Cool story, irrelevant since I both live in a blue state and voted.
  If it’s super important to have trans people not bring up Newsom’s transphobia, there is one and only one way to solve it: put pressure on him now to not abandon us.
  
  So, to get back to the original point … If it does come down to Newsom and Trump/Vance in 2028, I will be sad. But I will vote Newsom, because at least I know he isn’t going to declare that all trans people are sex criminals, round them up, and send them to “re-education” camps for “treatment”.
  What evidence do you have for that? He's been speed running transphobia. This is what every trans person is shouting to the rafters about, but folks like you refuse to listen. That's what people thought about Labor in UK, but then they went to enact the most transphobic policies in all of Western Europe.
  Transphobia follows a very very predictable path. You start by compromising on sports, an issue that conservatives chose precisely because it seems so minor. But by giving in to them, you're giving in to the core principle - that trans people are somehow dangerous and that it's OK to restrict our rights in order to "protect" other people. And once you go down that path, there's no stopping it. There is no scientifically valid reason for restricting trans people from sports; it's purely about conservatives being disgusted about trans people existing. And once you've given in to the bigots on one form of irrational bigotry, you just keep falling further and further.
  Every state that has passed sports bans has also gone on to pass or consider bathroom bans, restrictions on care for minors and adults, ID restrictions, and a host of other vile policies. And each step you take down the road to Hell, the easier the next one becomes. By passing a sports ban, you are stating you believe trans people to be dangerous people that need laws targeting our existence. And once you do that, even once, you are on the road to Hell.
  
  I'll be sure to kowtow to the voters who are above voting for the Democratic choice as they hand their votes to the fascists who want to kill them, reminding myself that the people who would have defended their lives just didn't... what, make enough medical centers? WTF exactly is good enough to get you to vote against Hitler, when THE CHOICE IS HITLER OR NOT HITLER
  
  they didn't say to shut up about it though, they specifically addressed non-voting.
  
  The conclusion is clearly that trans people need to suck it the fuck up and vote for someone who wants them out of public life. This is effectively shutting up about it.
  
  my bad, I guess I should've worded this better.
  we have two choices:
  democrats win
  republicans win
  which of those two outcomes would you rather have?
  
  If you are approaching criticizing a Democrat before the primary this way you are not ready to talk about politics seriously.
  The fact Democrats are the only path forward for trans rights is why trans people are freaking out so hard about Newsom’s turn to the right on trans rights. Like, you get those are related, right?
  
  We unfortunately live in a two-party system. If these alienated voters are being forced to choose between the transphobe, or someone who wants to systematically eradicate trans people, I hope those alienated voters wisen the fuck up real quick.
  At that point, their noble protest vote (or abstinence from voting) does nothing but make the world a worse place. Learn to fight for progress, instead of kneecapping everyone else from being able to do so because your candidate doesn't toe the line with literally every single one of your values.
  
  Which of your rights are you voting away with candidates that don’t “toe the line” with your right to exist as a human being?
  Why are you so comfortable demanding other people give up their rights while doing none of that yourself?
  Why is it more reasonable to you to demand trans people vote against their own rights than to do even the tiniest amount of work pressuring Newsom to stop the fucking transphobia?
  
  We already lost some rights, roe v wade had been overturned now for some time.
  
  Which Democratic candidate did you vote for to lose them?
  Why do you assume that isn’t also a right I’ve lost?
  
  Democrats are frankly quite complicit in the fall of Roe. They never bothered to codify Roe into law, because many of their own members found the topic awkward and icky, so they never bothered to do it. And they made the cold political calculation that keeping abortion as a continual political issue that they could run on was more important than actually protecting the right to abortion.
  
  I said we.
  
  Fair enough. Which democratic candidate did you vote for to lose reproductive healthcare rights? Because if the answer is “nobody” then that’s a disingenuous comparison. ‘Republicans took away our rights, so you have to vote for a Democratic candidate that wants to take away yours’ doesn’t even make sense.
  
  Regarding giving up rights comment: who is most likely to change their stance if you were to personally talk to them directly:
  Trump or Newsom?
  Pressuring one to change their stance isn’t the same as vilifying them. Republican GOP pigs vilify. That’s their play. Let’s be better than that. At least to each other please.
  
  Regarding giving up rights comment: who is most likely to change their stance if you were to personally talk to them directly:
  Trump or Newsom?
  They both have moved substantially to the right on trans issues. Both are just following opinion polls. So really, I think either are just about as likely. Both of them are amoral monsters that believe in nothing.
  
  Trump or Newsom?
  Neither one. They don't listen to the public. They listen to the donor class.
  
  Ah, you’re one of those types of doom scrollers.
  
  Please point out where I have vilified Newsom. Because pointing out his transphobia isn’t it. Asking people to pressure his office to knock the transphobia the fuck off—the very thing you are suggesting I should take into account—isn’t it either.
  If you’re saying I’m vilifying other users by asking pointed questions about why they’re so comfortable asking trans voters to vote for someone who is onboard with removing their rights, I don’t accept that as vilification either.
  
  Fuck off with that virtue signalling. The point above remains valid. Vote out the one that WANTS TO ERADICATE MARGINALISED PEOPLE then focus on improving the less-bad candidate.
  It remains the less-bad outcome.
  
  Sorry. If trans people and their allies are such a small insignificant group that our rights are negotiable, then you've decided our votes aren't important.
  To liberals, Dems can sacrifice trans people because we're so few in number. At the same time, they'll demand trans people vote Dem because every vote counts. In the classic fascist fashion, we're both weak and powerful at the same time somehow.
  Sorry, but I won't vote for a vice signaller like Newsom.
  
  Then you're a direct enabler of trump. Fuck you and your high minded puratism.
  Newsom might listen and change. Trump will not. Choose your battle.
  
  If you think Newsom might listen you can contact him and put pressure on him to change now. If he can change it shouldn’t be hard to prove it, right?
  https://www.gov.ca.gov/contact/
  
  Agreed
  
  Then tell him to change his mind and stop telling trans people to vote for someone who actively wants them removed.
  You're telling black people on 1960s to vote for George Wallace.
  
  I'll tell him. And I'll continue to vote for him even if he doesn't change his mind. will you?
  
  Why would “you need to change but if you don’t we’ll support you anyway” be a remotely effective message for achieving political change?
  
  Because I'm afraid of continuance of GOP in unchecked power.
  
  He's slightly better, so yes. But I'm going to expect better from the lesser evil than the evil party of Republicans.
  
  Past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior. Newsom, like Labor in the UK, shamelessly feed in to transphobia in an attempt to pander to the right. UK liberals haven't listened. And corporate Democrats are walking the same path, completely ignoring their constituents. Trump is as likely to change on the issue as Newsom is. In fact, both have changed their views on trans issues to move substantially to the right. Both have walked the same road.
  Sorry, but fuck you and your fascist collaboration. And specifically, fuck your lack of morals. The amorality of liberals like yourself is precisely why fascists are advancing. You're a fascist enabler and collaborator.
  Just listen to yourself. You're condemning someone for having a moral center. That's psychopath behavior.
  
  When it comes to US national politics at the end of the day you have to choose. When it comes to the president, you have 3choices. The Republican, the Democrat, or tossing your vote. It doesn't matter if you write in Mickey Mouse, vote for that Green Party lady, Lindon LeRouche or whomever, you and I both know that you're throwing away your vote, and chances are handing it to the Republican nominee. Your "morals" mean nothing. You shit on the rest of us to make some point that literally nobody will be impacted by, because you gave the Devil your vote. In conclusion, fuck you.
  
  https://outinstl.com/republican-commentator-joey-mannarino-calls-for-all-trans-people-in-the-u-s-to-be-detained-and-studied/
  Just saw this on Lemmy. I didn't even need to scroll. Please, keep telling me that Democrat Party is the worst choice.
  
  not what he fucking said, and you know it. but newsom is the worse choice democrats could make
  
  Trump is as likely to change on the issue as Newsom is.
  Hahahahaha k
  Sorry, but fuck you and your fascist collaboration. And specifically, fuck your lack of morals. The amorality of liberals like yourself is precisely why fascists are advancing. You're a fascist enabler and collaborator.
  Don't be sorry, you have an opinion. It's a stupid fucking opinion, but it's one nonetheless. Fascists are advancing because of vote abstainers and the consistency of those on the right. I'll continue to vote left, just as I'll continue to abuse those on the right. If you're not voting Democrat in the US system, you're enabling right. Pretty cut and dried.
  
  If you vote for Newsom you're enabling fascism. It's pretty cut and dried.
  
  “Wanting to exist as a human being in public” is now virtue signaling, very nice.
  If it’s super important for trans people to all vote for whatever candidate Dems put forward, and you also believe Newsom is the likely candidate, then you should call his office and tell him that the transphobia is alienating voters. Because it is.
  
  I agree! I so agree. But, and here's the rub, I'll vote for him even if he doesn't change his position. Because he is not the existential threat posed by the GOP.
  
  He is an existential threat. Newsom has opposed and vetoed bills advancing trans rights. This isn't just rhetoric.
  
  https://outinstl.com/republican-commentator-joey-mannarino-calls-for-all-trans-people-in-the-u-s-to-be-detained-and-studied/
  Just saw this on Lemmy. I didn't even need to scroll. Please, keep telling me that Democrat are the worst choice.
  
  What's your point? Democrats are just five years behind Republicans on the transphobia rot.
  
  Opinion without merit. Dismissed just as easily.
  
  not what they said and you fucking know that. newsome is the worse choice the democrats could make
  
  Not the worst but I hear your point
  
  You refuse to acknowledge my underlying point, that although Newsom (Democrat party by extension) is a threat, Trump and the GOP will / actively ARE displacing minorities (including trans).
  But go on, continue attacking the less-worse outcome. Hope that helps when ICE comes knocking.
  
  Or how about we just tell Newsom to go fuck himself and nominate a Democrat who isn't a transphobic piece of human garbage?
  Look, you can ignore the words that trans people are trying to tell you. But trans folks and their allies are not going to vote for an openly transphobic Democratic candidate. You lost in 2024 because you refused to listen to members of your base saying that there are some red lines you can't cross. You want to try that play again, see how it works again?
  Democrats are only five years behind Republicans. Newsom is Republican from five years ago. 2 years into his first term, he will be just as bad as Trump is now. He's not going to reverse any of the bigoted policies of the Trump administration.
  Frankly, if the majority aren't willing to stand up to protect trans folks, then you all can burn with us. If I'm going to the camps regardless of which party wins, I'll happily watch the rest of you descend into utter ruin. You want to abandon minority groups? Then you deserve whatever karma brings your way.
  
  With that attitude, writ large across different minorites (with competing values), we are condemned to suffer under the boot.
  It is interesting to note that you have projected certain perspectives (e.g. abandoning trans) into my position. These words are not found, nor implied, in anything I've stated.
  I will continue to rail against authoritarianism and fascism. You may blame me as much as you wish, and I hope you find some measure of fulfillment.
  
  So you'll vote for him if he keeps the Republican talking points, got it. You don't care what they stand for, but the party they're with.
  
  https://outinstl.com/republican-commentator-joey-mannarino-calls-for-all-trans-people-in-the-u-s-to-be-detained-and-studied/
  Just saw this on Lemmy. I didn't even need to scroll. Please, keep telling me that Democrat are the worst choice.
  
  You refuse to acknowledge my underlying point, that although Newsom (Democrat party by extension) is a threat, Trump and the GOP will / actively ARE displacing minorities (including trans).
  But go on, continue attacking the less-worse outcome. Hope that helps when ICE comes knocking.
  
  The ICE Harris wanted to keep? Sure.
  
  Cool, not sure what you want me to do with that information. I don’t think it was ever in question whether you or any other liberal who is offended by trans people demanding Newsom drop the transphobia would ultimately support him, or any other candidate with his policies, no matter what.
  The question is if other voters will. If you don’t think it will change anything, then criticizing his transphobia won’t matter. If you think it will affect who votes for him, then you better start ringing his phone off the hook about it and you better start quick, because the days of trans people being quiet about it are gone. If you want to be the party of trans rights that means you also have to listen to trans people, not just use us as a decoration.
  https://www.gov.ca.gov/contact/
  
  Fair play, I agree with your statements. Thanks for taking the time.
  
  Thank you for listening. As you might imagine, this is extremely stressful.
  
  There is no compromising with transphobes. Sports are just a way to get the foot in the door. It's not like conservatives actually give a shit about women's sports. It starts with sports. Next you're "protecting women's spaces" by forcing women to use the men's restroom and locker room. Next you're denying accurate ID documents to people to "fight gender fraud."
  I would call this a slippery slope fallacy, but this is the exact same track that both conservatives and liberals have taken. The UK liberal government is one of the most transphobic in the developed world.
  Sorry, I'm not going to vote for a candidate that's going to support destroying my life, even if they happen to be a Democrat. If Newsom gets the nomination in 2028, I'll stay home on election day. Sorry. You don't get to throw minority groups on to a pyre and then whine when they refuse to support you.
  "I just stabbed you, but why aren't you voting for me????"
- Force people to vote against their rights, why dont you?
  
  I'm not trying to force anyone to even think a particular way, let alone DO something. But when the choice is the person who literally wants you dead vs someone who's willing to maybe marginalize you in the current political environment, I would mildly urge you to maybe kindly vote against the guy with a gun to your head who will pull the trigger when he wins. Just sayin'. Maybe focus on the marginalization issue next season before it gets to the gun to the head again. "FUCK YOU KILL ME" isn't really the best choice in my humble opinion.
  
  But if the guy that hates trans and homeless people becomes president do you really think that the Dems would ever again platform someone that doesn't want a genocide in their own country? And why do people have to support the piece of shit before he gets legitimised in any way through a primary anyways?
  
  I'm pretty sure in 2024 the Dems platformed someone who didn't want a genocide in this country. Mamdani seems like a pretty good dude, and he's in the general because he won the primary over said piece of shit. So the system can work. Or we can all be pessimists and let the fascists continue to run roughshod because the Democrats aren't woke enough or whatever.
  
  They are anyways. Just because ypu choose not to vote doesnt mena youre note subjected to the result. And every vote not cast against fascism is a vote for it.
  
  Then after many years of voting for the slightly lesser evil, you look up and realize that both candidates are fascist. You never bothered to hold the "good" side accountable, so they just kept sliding further and further into evil.
  The only reason Newsom is a Democrat is because he lives in California. If he lived in Texas, he would happily be a Republican. He doesn't actually believe in anything.
- This exactly. It's almost like they want Trump to remain in office, or someone just like him. I'm so, so so tired of that attitude.
- Meanwhile, doing absolutely nothing to propose more progressive alternatives.
  
  I'm sure Hitler will totally understand your concerns.

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