Regret Rule
Regret Rule


Regret Rule
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Does anyone really believe the ‘we don’t even need to be working really at all’ part?
I'm taking it as hyperbole.
The amount that technological developments have amplified our productivity over even the past couple of decades, is insane
Yet
Many people are working longer hours for less money (in real terms)
We absolutely should be working less
tech advancements are converted to company profits rather than worker profits. What CEOs try to do with AI (but fail) is a proof of that.
tech advancements are converted to company profits rather than worker profits.
The problem is ownership.
When the capitalist owns the technology that bring an increase of productivity then the capitalist "is entitled" to 100% of the "extra" profit generated by the increase of productivity. Because the workers are not able to output any excess by their own means the capitalist doesn't believe they deserve anything extra which is why we're stuck in this shit situation where wages seem stagnant while profits and productivity seem to always increase. :(
You found a long wording there for "the means of production" :)
It was intentional so I didn't scare anyone with spooky scary Marxist language lol
well - the association was instant for me, and I never even read Marx, just a few wikipedia summaries ^^
Maybe he's a bee in Rubacava
The Conquest of Bread by Peter Kropotkin was written in 1892 and argued then that we labour far more than is actually necessary. Lots of work is work for the sake of work, not necessarily for the necessity of life and society.
Think now on how much technological improvement there has been since then. The industrial revolution continued, flight, computers and automation, even the factory line system didn't take off until Ford in the early 1900s.
We have so many machines, computers, and processes that never existed a hundred years ago.
The point isn't that we have no need for work, the point is we don't need to work anywhere near as much as we do.
A modern book that argues something similar is Bullshit Jobs by David Graeber.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Conquest_of_Bread
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/petr-kropotkin-the-conquest-of-bread
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_Jobs
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/david-graeber-bullshit-jobs
From the wiki article you cited:
Two studies found that Graeber's claims are not supported by data: while he claims that 50% of jobs are useless, less than 20% of workers feel that way, and those who feel their jobs are useless do not correlate with whether their job is useless. (Garbage collectors, janitors, and other essential workers more often felt like their jobs were useless than people in jobs classified by Graeber as useless.) The studies found that toxic work culture and bad management were better explanations of the reasons for those feelings (as described in Marx's theory of alienation). The studies did find that the belief that one's work is useless led to lower personal wellbeing.
The reality is, almost no jobs are actually bullshit. After all, whether you are a giant corporation or a homeowner paying for a plumber to fix their toilet, no one wants to pay someone money to do nothing useful. Of course, there is slack in the system and sometimes you'll end up in a sort of sisyphean job. But most jobs exist because someone, somewhere needs or wants something done. And most of the needs and wants of the world, ultimately, come from normal people.
Of course, it is easy to make the argument that what people want is wrong. They could live in smaller houses, ride bikes instead of cars, not eat meat, and stop buying fancy watches.They could repair things instead if throwing them out, learn to be happy living in their neighborhoods rather than travelling around the world, and have fun by spending time with friends instead of going to music festivals.
But the fact is "we are going to solve malaria in Malawi by ending Bonaroo, steak, and shopping malls" is not a line that will play well with... like... anyone.
"Statistics show that most people have not read Graeber's argument yet and don't want to believe their time is being wasted. Therefore he is wrong."
Yeah, not working shouldn't even be a goal here. What we should strive for is to build a society where work is empowering for the workers rather than alienating, where it benefits the whole society rather than just creating value for a select few
I mean, we couldn't do that very well even when we had strong families and strong communities, and unions were more common.
The last 30-40 years has seen individual independence grow alongside digital sequestration, communities disappear, families shrink, and unions almost fully evaporate.
What is required is a new revolution where luddites are given control and digital tools are eschewed, so that real community can grow again and total control of digital spaces ceases not because benevolent IT folks take control, but because digital spaces are eradicated entirely until an equitable way of using them without the current totalitarian bent can be agreed upon.
That's basically fiction at this point. Zero chance that happens. So then what is the option to combat the paradigm of establishing super convenient and useful digital worlds that have real strengths and usefulness, only to then use that strength and usefulness to create dependence and leverage that into data mining and total control of those who rely on the useful digital spaces?
The best hope at this point is a generation where totalitarianism and greed is completely rejected and the current philosophies of the uber-wealthy few are completely abandoned in favor of a decentralized system that uses the same algorithms designed to chisel every last dollar into upward-flowing profit to achieve actual, complete and mathematically-verifiable equality of resource across all people.
Thank you for coming to my Ted talk
That was where I stopped reading and taking him seriously. I don't know if we have enough clothes for 6 generations (and I somehow doubt it but I am happy to be educated) but the claim we don't need to work anymore is a fucking nonsense.
For the clothes, yeah 6 gens might be stretching it, but definitely multigen. Think of all the fast fashion in the landfills. Think of your average department store of what's just on the shelves. Think of how often we dispose of perfectly good clothes out of our own closets. It adds up.
Not to mention how far small simple repairs can extend the life of clothing.
Got a hole in your jeans? Many people would bin them. If you instead patch the hole you now have perfectly functional jeans again.
It's not true at all. Until robotics catches up and real AI is developed, we still need people doing shitty jobs like picking crops
Edit: And it's not even just shitty jobs. Humans working is essential to society functioning. There's not a single industry that can operate completely without human labor.
But people hugely overestimate how many of these jobs exist. We went from 90% farmers 150 years ago to like 1-2% now.
That is just an example. Building houses (starting with producing concrete and bricks), fixing cars, producing electricity, water, gas, renewables - the claim about "no need to work" is a complete nonsense.
Also service jobs like taking care of people who needs it, much can be done with robots and “ai” but fuck if I’m going die with only “ai” by my side. As much as I hate other humans, they’re needed.
much can be done with robots and “ai” but fuck if I’m going die with only “ai” by my side
I hate to break it to you, but you better start saving if you want a good human next to you when you die. I did palliative care for developmentally delayed adults, $12/hr in 2018. Fifty cents more than minimum wage. I was watching people die, and I couldn't even take a vacation.
I went from being a caring person, to wishing people would die faster, to wishing I could die myself because that was the only form of a 'break' I could think of getting. Drove into traffic, got t-boned by an SUV going 55mph, and I think the month in the hospital is still the most relaxed I've ever been.
Won’t be necessary, my family tradition is drinking our self to death and if that don’t work we die of totally preventable types of cancer 🙃 but yea I’m saving and investing as much as I can, around 20%, not for me but for my fiancée so she can keep up the living.
You're not going to have much of a say in that decision unless "the market" has within it a selection of nursing homes that use and don't use AI/robotics.
I seriously doubt that will be the case though. Pretty much any for profit business that can justify the initial expense of the robotics/AI, will do so as labor is a large expense that all businesses seek to eliminate.
Probably not, as everything goes to shit our death might as well too.
I do none of these. So I can just stop working I guess. 😃
you'd be surprised but building houses is less of a trouble than you'd think.
the first big cities were built in late medieval age / early modern times. the great fire of london wiped out large parts of the city in 1666, up to which point most housings were built of wood. Yes, wood. After that, the city decided to rebuild the city in bricks and stones to guard against future fires. That was the first big cities on earth. (apart from some luxury cities for show-off in antiquity).
since then, almost all big cities have been built from scratch within the last 200 years. It was this rapid growth, together with an exponentially growing population, that caused all the demand for human work. Now, birth rates are declining in most of the northern hemisphere, and the population is gonna decline starting sometime around 2040. That means that you need less houses year after year, and if you completely stop building new houses, you'd probably still have enough after that, because old houses and city apartments tend to be freed up by old people dying.
So, no, building houses is not a big trouble. Maintaining houses (that we already have) is significantly less work than building new housing, and we already have a massive number of houses standing around today.
Rowcrops like corn and potatoes is one of those things that is heavily automated.
Ok, so since 2 crops are heavily automated, no human has to harvest crops again.
You're ignoring the fact that "heavily automated" still means humans are required to work, just not as many.
first of all, picking crops isn't a shitty job. i did it two times in summer, it was fun. what sucked was the low pay and the bad quality of working colleagues that it caused.
I'm glad it was fun for you. I lived on a farm and working the fields in 110F weather fucking sucks.