2d ago

Are you a feminist? (If so why, if not why not?)

Might help also to describe what you think feminism is, since it's one of those terms that is overloaded.

I once had a physical therapist tell me she wasn't a feminist because she thought women couldn't be as physically capable as men when serving as soldiers, and seemed to believe feminism requires treating women exactly like men.

I told her I was a feminist because I believe in equal rights for men and women, an idea she did not seem so opposed to.

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Of course I'm a feminist. It's one of those sublime categories like "alive" or "pregnant" that has only two possible states.
Feminist
Sexist pig.
- This 👆is the answer
- This is the basic problem with how feminism is promoted. If you don’t agree with our views, you are a sexist pig.
  This is not a good way to make reluctant people to accept your ideas. It pushes them even further into opposition.
  
  Can you please be a bit more concrete? What do you think feminism is and which views would push someone into opposition?
  
  There are some who use the "feminism" banner to promoted sexism towards men. I've seen posts that talk about wishing for a world where no men exist etc and it gets praised under the guise of feminism.
  Imo that isn't feminism, that's just misandry. If you swapped our the word "men" with "women" in those posts, they would rightly be called sexist.
  I am definitely a feminist in that i believe in equality and believe that women have had a number of challenges presented to them that men typically dont experience.
  I also, however, believe there are challenges that men experience that typically women dont.
  
  Feminism is equal rights and opportunities for everyone. My added thing is equal responsibilities. This is the dictionary type of definition.
  Most people (at least the vocal ones) are either completely sexist (both sides - feminazis and sexist men) or think it is only about promoting interests of women.
  I can’t give you all the possible views off the top of my head but I'll try.
  If you are not a feminist, you are sexist. - There is no nuance or leniency for human nature. This makes skeptics jump to opposition because they feel attacked for their behaviour. Any further push only makes them more apprehensive.
  Men have it so good - This is kind of a mixed bag for even me because it is situation and topic specific. Men have had better opportunities for some things like education or jobs, yes. But they have fared worse in some other things like emotions, expectations, dating, etc. Now, if someone who struggles with a lot of things is told "Men have it so much better", they will not agree because any one person can only experience their own problems. On the other hand, there are men who feel women have it too easy with how they can earn money by selling porn, they can get out of situations by crying, how easy it is for women to get laid, etc. I don’t necessarily agree with everything but this is what I have seen people say. So, this makes "Men have it better" laughable for some people.
  Where are the equal responsibilities? - Feminism promotes equal rights but (conveniently) ignore the equal responsibilities part. A lot of women like to be damsels in distress and also want to enjoy the perks of freedom and equality. This is something I personally despise a lot.
  
  If a person can't accept the basic premise that woman are equal to men, they're sexist by definition. This isn't the fault of "how feminism is promoted".
  
  It is. Most people associate feminism with promoting women and not equality. Most people don’t look up the definition in a dictionary
  
  I care a lot less about what word they use than what ideals they espouse. They can call themselves egalitarians or antisexists or whatever label as long as they oppose sexism, misogyny, heteronormativity, and "gender roles".
  
  Agreed. I think as a whole society has started giving more value to words than actions. It is backwards, especially when social media is prone to creating echo chambers for words, and actions go unnoticed.
  
  "most people" are (1) a much smaller group that you think and (2) wrong.
  If your behavior can at all be described as sexist, then you're not a feminist. That includes both Feminism Appropriating Radical Transphobes like JK Rowling.and outright sex pests like Andrew Cuomo.
  
  Well, I can only comment on my social group and that is the only group i am concerned about in this context. So, it is 'most people' for me.
  If your behavior can at all be described as sexist, then you're not a feminist.
  I hate this polar thinking so much. Everything is not all or none, yes or no, black or white. People are unique and everything is a spectrum. Even Hitler had admirable qualities and if this makes you uneasy, you need to open up your mind.
  
  Even Hitler had admirable qualities
  But certainly the most relevant quality he had was his rabid, genocidal antisemitism, right?
  You wouldn't complain about him being labeled as a eugenicist just because he painted a little when he wasn't slaughtering millions.
  
  I don’t mix things. I admire Hitler for being a vegan and pursuing art. I absolutely hate what he did with concentration camps.
  But certainly the most relevant quality he had was his rabid, genocidal antisemitism, right?
  Relavant depends on the thing we talk about. If we are talking about history, he isn't winning any Peace or Humanitarian awards.
  
  "What he did with concentration camps"
  vs
  "Vegan"
  You're not beating the allegations here.
  
  What do you mean?
  
  You don't seem to have a problem with the use of labels when it comes to dietary choices, im not sure why you'd go to such lengths to avoid calling Hitler a eugenicist. You even used passive language by saying 'what he did with concentration camps' instead of stating plainly that he 'exterminated 6 million jews' in them.
  
  Not everything is a spectrum. You are either actually pregnant or not-pregnsnt. You're either free to go when the officet is talking to you or you are being detained. You either had consent for sex or you didn't.
  For example, if the example you provide to bolster your argument is "Hitler had admirable qualities", then you've jumped all the way past Godwin's law and there's no use talking to you.
  
  Flaw in your argument is that you are comparing states and one time actions with mindset and sum of many actions.
  there's no use talking to you.
  Yet you did.
  
  If you are not a feminist, you don't believe in the equality of the sexes, right?
  I'm not sure, this feels a bit like when people complain about "anti-fascist" as a label because it makes them feel pressured to be anti-fascist or otherwise be seen as sympathetic to fascism ... my question is why is anti-fascism (or in this case, feminism) so hard to accept?
  I guess feminism works precisely by getting us to think about sexism and whether we think that is acceptable or not - I don't think it's good to be sexist, and I think it's reasonable to feel ashamed about being sexist. Social shame and taboo seems appropriate in this case, no? Like the anti-fascist example, fascists should be ashamed and face taboo for their views.
  Not that you're wrong, some people will double-down in the face of opposition, this is precisely why so many fundamentalist churches promote street preaching, it doesn't convert people (which is the reason given for the activity), but it is effective at solidifying the loyalty of the member, since on the street they experience significant opposition, which bolsters their in-group identity. It's like a cult dynamic.
  So yeah, it's probably good for social shame to be introduced for sexism, fascism, racism, etc. - but it's not a complete victory, the shame can induce stronger loyalties to those movements for those who still hold the views despite their taboo status.
  
  People are unique and everyone has varying opinions on every topic, so how can they be simplified to a simple yes or no. There is a spectrum for everything. People who are at extremes find it easy to fit in yes or no categories but everyone else feels lost.
  For example, there can be a guy in a rural area who supports his family's women by letting them go to school/college, working, dating who they want but he is very adamant that they should not dress and wear makeup like "removed". Would you call him a feminist? Why or why not?
  it's probably good for social shame to be introduced for sexism, fascism, racism, etc
  Yikes, this is a hard no. People don’t change their views like this. Also, you are being a bully if you shame people for anything. Just because you think you have a moral high ground does not make it okay to impose it on others. You are no different than religious evangelicals if you do.

252 comments