For All That Is Good About Humankind, Ban Smartphones

Ban smartphones makes about as much sense as ban drugs or ban guns. It does nothing to address root causes and will do little to change anything for the better. Societal issues take more than “make X illegal”.
- If USA banned guns, they might have a few less shootings.
  
  Counting the civil war or no?
  
  This is obviously true in the strictest sense, but I don’t think it’s going to have the desired effect you want in the long run. How’s the War on Drugs working out? It’s been going for 54 years, so I assume it’s about wrapped up now, drugs aren’t an issue, black market is choked out, and society is better off.
  Firearms restrictions will be enforced unequally; it will be used as a pretense to further persecute minorities. Those with money will simply hire private security contractors who can jump through the legal hoops to get whatever they want. The majority of shootings in the US are related to drugs and other illegal activities that have logistics channels to get guns just as easily as drugs or exploited people. Guns are durable and the demand exists. They’re not going anywhere.
  The gun problem in the US is not the cause of our woes, it is the symptom. “Make X illegal” is the laziest form of government and it’s just granting them more power which will be abused eventually.
- Battling anything is built of two parts, making it immoral, and making it illegal. Making it illegal makes it easier to argue that it's immoral, because many people take cues for their morality from legality, but if you want to keep it illegal you have to maintain the cultural belief in its immorality. Each reinforces the other.

Smartphones are fine, it's just a small computer that can make calls and is connected to the internet. You're using it wrong.
If people can't control themselves or their kids, it's not my problem.
- Not your problem yet
  That being said: just banning smartphones isn’t gonna cut it.
  
  It's a lot of problems that I would never solve on my own, and both politicians and citizens don't want to change: social media and AI are destroying humans, shitty parents dont want to take care of their kids, and climate change is destroying the world. It's inevitable but the smartphone that I use is not responsible.
- The rise of fascists isn't your problem? Believe it or not, they'd never be this strong if it weren't for brainwashing the masses via smartphones.
  
  We had the same propaganda with books, radio, and TV. Should we ban those things too?

Many of us want to disconnect, but we can’t do so alone — not without losing touch with the world around us. Disconnection, today, carries real social and economic costs. Until such time as smartphones and social media can be democratically governed or nationalized — liberated from the imperative to profit off our attention indefinitely — a ban may be the most realistic path to reclaiming our lives.
If the author can't stop using whatever website he's upset about without requiring everyone else to have their smartphones banned, that sounds like a him problem.
- It's not a problem that can meaningfully be dealt with on an individual level.
  I recommend Johann Hari's book Stolen Focus. It goes deep into influencing factors of why we are having such a hard time of putting our devices down. The first he lists: giant tech companies are employing the smartest people on earth (i.e., smarter than you or me) to maximize engagement. The cards are heavily stacked against any single one of us trying to break free from these skinner boxes. The threat of social isolation you mock the blog's author for is of course another ace up Meta's sleeve. The book among other things tries to relieve the feeling of individual failure at this insurmountable task of constantly fending off the targeted attacks on our attention- I paraphrase: "You didn't fail, it was a losing battle to begin with."
  If you yourself don't have this problem, I'm glad for you and I hope it lasts. Many, many people do, and there are ever more tragic news headlines to show for it. We as a society (or is that societies?) need to regulate the tech-oligarchs, and fast. I have some hope left at least for the EU coming around on it.
  
  For every issue there is someone absolving individuals of responsibility. Either people have brains and can be responsible or they are brainless and can’t have responsibility. If it’s the latter then I think we should structure society in such a way that people can’t have free will because they clearly cannot be responsible for their choices.
  Edit: every time I’m spending more time than I should on social media I just turn on an app like JOMO and in a week the problem is solved. Techbros do it, they call it screen fasting or some shit like that.
- I am trying so hard to not just make snarky comments but Jesus fucking Christ can you actually read the quote you posted and think about what they may be talking about?
  I'm not on twitter and never have been. That significantly impacts the information that I recive and I am usually getting news a day or so later than people that are on twitter. That has social consequences and means that I am less able to talk about recent events. That's just one example on how you can not separate yourself from the information economy without negatively impacting your socialization.

This is literally not a problem with smartphones, the problem is about the software you decide to run on it. A smartphone is simply a very powerful pocket computer.
- I agree, except that we are legally not allowed to control the software on our phones in lots of cases. Notifications, ads, upgrades, etc. are all controlled by the manufacturer and it's illegal to override their software on the device you own.
  Add to that that specific pieces of software are becoming increasingly necessary to function in society, and you start to see that it's not really a matter of individual choice, anymore than people shopping at walmart can be blamed for buying processed, sugary foods when that's 90% of what walmart stocks (And all they promote), and walmart is the only affordable option in their community.
  
  Do it anyway. I use adb to modify my phone and make it suck less. I also look forward to the day (if it ever comes) where Linux phones are a viable replacement option.
  
  I've been able to turn off notifications for anything on my phone. Only the few apps I choose to allow still give me notifications.
  I am fortunate to have a job that does not require a cell phone, I can leave it behind for hours at a time without affecting my work. I know this is not the case for everyone, but it should be an option.
  At the very least, a phone required for work should have a separate phone number and email account, and should turn off automatically after the employee clocks out for the day. Some countries already have laws about this stuff, we should do that more.

Ban social media and advertising/marketing. Smart phones are just a small computer.

Ehhhh no.
I can get behind "ban spying on me."
I can even get behind "ban social media, especially the kind that makes you sell yourself, though pseudononymous link aggregators are less the issue."
But "no more torrenting at work, no more reading digitally while pooping, no more encrypted chats, now have to carry a book, a camera, an mp3 player, my GBC, and a dumb phone, just to make up for the phone?"
No.

smartphones are one of rhe hundreds o things that would probably be just fine and good if it weren't for capitalism
- Greed isn't limited to any one economic system, I fear.
  
  There is no other economic system.
  And "greed" isn't really the problem with capitalism. It's more about the violent deprivation of human needs in order to exploit people for the extreme privilege of a tiny minority. Etc.
  
  Seems more like a power thing but I guess that's greed too
- classic lemmy

- Smart phones are just pocket computers. Up to you how their used, good evil neutral it's all at ur fingertips.

How about no. I've been wanting a pocketable "do everything" device since I got a Tiger Electronics PokeDex as a kid. Don't take this away from me.
How about better regulations on the obscene amount of data collection going on behind our backs? I can't count how many times I've come across even just websites that have a giant "accept all cookies" button, but in order to reject any, you have to dig through layers and layers of "settings". The most I've seen was 80+. And that's just websites.
I'm about to wipe my phone and go all-in on Calyx OS.

Perhaps the actual answer is for people to learn self control.
- That will never work, nobody has discipline anymore
  
  Ok buddy Marcus Aurelius

I'm pretty far down the luddite/makhaevist wormhole... But this is just a garbage idea.

relevant xkcd
- There really is an XKCD for everything.

Author admits smartphones are ubiquitous, and doesn't at all consider, in a hypothetical situation where everyone unanimously agreed to stop using them, where all this e-waste will go?
Also, how do you disillusion the millions of people that use them religiously?
I get the sentiment, but only a significant technologically literate society would really appreciate the need for greater control over their devices and actually possess the skills needed to modify and configure them.
- Current smart phones will become e-waste either way. On that front, the benefit would be forcing all manufacturers to stop creating more e-waste for the future.
- Author admits smartphones are ubiquitous, and doesn’t at all consider, in a hypothetical situation where everyone unanimously agreed to stop using them, where all this e-waste will go?
  Pretty much every single smartphone in use right now will be ewaste 20 years from now, and most of them will be within 10. So we have that disposal problem already regardless. Hypothetically, if everyone were to get rid of their phones, we'd at least stop creating even more future ewaste.

The problem is with planned obsolescence and capitalist drive to always make more. The device itself is not inherently bad, it's a glorified calculator.

Smartphones make us more social, allowing us to reach each other ad hoc, not just by planning the meeting for a week. They makes us more free by providing helping tools like GPS and similar. They make us happier by helping to kill time while standing in the line or riding on the bus.
You're doing something wrong.
- Social media has replaced and ruined real human interaction.
  
  And what does it have to do with smartphones? You think that "social media" is "antisocial"? Well, then write it as "ban social media". Be precise with formulations.
  
  You realize you're on social media right now?
  
  Not all social media. But we know what you are talking about. The clout culture and instant gratification is what ruining them.
  Banning one would only create thousands of copycats. And don't think they won't come here, if Lemmy, Mastodon or Pixelfed gets popular.

Me who has a disability which prevents me from speaking and hearing people and renders me bedridden.
“Okay, guess I’ll die then”

All claims and no reasoning.
- But people clicked it, and it's the only thing that matters. Of course banning smartphones completely is a stupid idea, but it's a wild claim that draws attention.

can we just ban people in general instead?
- Now we're getting closer to the root. 👍

Hey David, can you guess how many people are reading your article from a smartphone? Convenient, isn't it.
Want to complain about smartphones? Write a book... or something that can be published on fucking paper.
- Bad take.
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Moscrop
  Journalists tell themselves they can make their ends meet by publishing a book pretty frequently.
  Turns out that's rarely true. He seems to be mainly a podcaster though? Those lines can get blurry.
  Also, the Jacobin is a magazine that still sells a printed version...
  
  So, can you guess which percentage of people prefer using an smartphone to read these kind of anti smartphone articles? Do you see the issue? The irony?
  This is just trash ragebait dude.

If you ban smartphones you better make a better replacement portable pc in the palm of my hand then.
- There are 6, 7 and 8 inch laptops available for all the on-the-go computing you need.
- Pocket PCs were a thing. I loved them.

No. If you wanna ditch the Internet, go right ahead.

I'm perfectly fine switching back to a "feature phone" aka dump phone that takes phone calls and sends texts. If it also could be used as a music/podcast playiner, that'd be great too.

Even better, let's make being happy mandatory.
- Done. What's next on my list?

And then what? Go back to the stone age?
Kids waiting to get picked at school and their parents have emergency, how are they gonna inform the others to get picked up? Are they gonna just let that kid suck it up and wait for hours, just like the good old times?
- What? Corded phones exist, and most schools and offices have at least one in each room. Dumb phones exist. Pagers exist.
  Smart phones are not the only singular solution for easy, quick contact.
- The stone age = any time before 2005 apparently 🙄
- 1-800-collect

Is Jacobin just garbage or am I just seeing only garbage articles?
- Idk why don't you go directly to the site?
  https://jacobin.com/
  Looks fine to me but they're preaching to the choir. You're certainly right that people have only been posting their shit takes here.
  Like some kind of engagement or rage bait or something

so much bullshit

Social media, algorithms and echo chambers they create are 80% of the problem degrading societies.
- You mean it's not the genocide, exploitation, imperialism, etc? It's just social media? Peak capitalist apologism.
  
  You understand that social media helps create and reinforce those things right? Social media has lead to the fall of America into fascism. It might have if social media didn't exist but this rise in fascism is directly related to social media and the way that it fucks with peoles heads.

Why is the left so intent on becoming Luddites? What the fuck is this timeline?
- I don't think it's "the left" as a whole but the literal Luddites would definitely have been considered part of it.
  There's just going to be some overlap in the anti-capitalist Venn diagram on these issues.
- Because luddism is good. But this article aint it.
  
  No it isn’t. Technology is the evolutionary adaptation of humanity. It would be like a tiger cutting off its claws, or a rabbit breaking its own legs.
  This left wing Luddite attitude is simply fueled by fucking tribalism because it wasn’t really anywhere to be found until the tech bros turned republican.