1mo ago

In the US, is this actually the moment past the point of no return?

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From an outsider's perspective, I think a lot of people think you guys sailed past the point of no return back in the 80s.
- Reagan, he is the starting point of everything: the tax cut from 73% to 28%. USA never got back on track after this.
  
  Nope. Johnson.
  No, not that one.
  Andrew Johnson.
  So many ways it could have been better.
  He could have punished the Southern Aristocracy for starting the civil war. He could have ensured that the evil that led us there was exterminated forever.
  Failing that, they could have actually removed him via impeachment instead of falling just short. That would have at least established forever that the presidency is not some sacred "unimpeachable" office.
  
  But Raygun did a great break dancing set in the Olympics.
- Remember when the entire world was convinced there was absolutely no way Bush, an idiot, fascist, religious bigot, etc could get re-elected?
  
  Nobody thought that at all. Most presidents sitting during outbreaks of war retain their positions. You'd have to have been in a complete echo chamber to believe this stance. The moment 9/11 happened, it solidified Bush's Second term in stone.
  I assume you mean Jr. Because Sr wasn't the moron that Jr was.
  
  Yeah no, I'm gonna disagree. Being outside of the US at the time, most people did think that. And yes, obviously I'm talking about Jr since Sr didn't get re-elected. 9/11 was a full three years before the election of his second term. And most importantly before he started the war in Iraq. A war that was widely viewed as illegitimate outside the US.
  
  It was viewed as illegitimate inside the US too. And yeah, I remember, even as a 17yr old at the time, seeing the event happen live and lamenting to my mother that we were going to have another Bush term over it. Historically for America that's always been the case.
  
  It was viewed as illegitimate inside the US too.
  You're recollection of events is clearly skewed. Something like 80% of the population approved of it at first. Meanwhile there were protests in the millions of people around the world against it.
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_opinion_in_the_United_States_on_the_invasion_of_Iraq
  A Gallup poll made on behalf of CNN and USA Today concluded that 79% of Americans thought the Iraq War was justified, with or without conclusive evidence of illegal weapons.
  
  It's so fucking disgusting to be honest... I'm just a worthless dumb shit uneducated factory worker and at 17 I could see right through that garbage... We're a hateful group of people whether we care to admit it or not, there was a lot of anti-islamic/Muslim/Arab sentiment in the US at thst time. People were bloodthirsty.
  I was going to join the military after highschool to get training since I'm poor and had no real direction to gamble on college, and then take it from there whether to stay in or not. Once talk started of invading Iraq I immediately said fuccccck that. I still blame Bush partially for my current situation. :/
  
  You should read your own link, because it also mentions that by the end of his term, most disapproved. By 2006 it was viewed as illegitimate by most. My recollection of events is fine, thanks.
  America will generally approve of measures when they are led to believe it affects their security and safety. It's the years afterwards that determine if it continues to hold support.
  
  You should read your own link, because it also mentions that by the end of his term, most disapproved
  I clearly stated "at first". Mind you by the end of his term a majority still thought it was the right thing to do.
  
  It was, but there were people removed about it. It may be an unconventional way to show it but if you look at Eminem's album released in 2004 the second track was Mosh.
  "Stomp, push, shove, mush, Fuck Bush, until they bring our troops home"
  "Let the president answer a higher anarchy Strap him with an Ak-47, let him go, fight his own war Let him impress daddy that way No more blood for oil, we got our own battles to fight on our own soil No more psychological warfare, to trick us to thinking that we ain't loyal If we don't serve our own country, we're patronizing a hero Look in his eyes its all lies The stars and stripes, they've been swiped, washed out and wiped And replaced with his own face, Mosh now or die If I get sniped tonight you know why, Cause I told you to fight."
  To me that's pretty obvious mainstream music pushing us to turn back against exactly what this false patriotism that exists today in MAGA is.
  
  Nucular. 🤦
- 9/11
- What?!
  The 80s were fucked, but if you're saying it was worse than the response to the Civil Rights movement...
  McCarthyism...
  Jim Crow...
  Or the KKK destroying reconstruction...
  Like, I could see saying that last one was the point, only if you start the clock immediately after resolving the civil war. Cause obviously a Civil War is what really happens after a point of no return. We lasted a couple years in between the two points.
  For as fucked as the last 40 years has been, as far as America goes we're beating the average on basic human decency.
  What's happening now isn't new, it's a slip backwards, which is unfortunately common when you try to fight fascism with moderate politics. It works for a little bit because they're coasting off the last people who really fought. But all moderate politcs really are, is giving fascist time to regroup in the shadows like fucking Sauron.
  It's a cycle, and we live in a time when you can learn pretty much anything about history in a few minutes on Wikipedia
  America can not afford for voters to stay ignorant. We need people who know what happened last time, what worked then, and what might work again. Stop acting like we live in unprecedented times, and start reading up on how fascism has been defeated historically.
  Cuz we're up, like it or not shits getting real again. And the more people know what we're doing then better.
- You mean the 1780s, right?

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