5mo ago

Why are people downvoting the MediaBiasFactChecker bot?

I know MediaBiasFactCheck is not a be-all-end-all to truth/bias in media, but I find it to be a useful resource.

It makes sense to downvote it in posts that have great discussion -- let the content rise up so people can have discussions with humans, sure.

But sometimes I see it getting downvoted when it's the only comment there. Which does nothing, unless a reader has rules that automatically hide downvoted comments (but a reader would be able to expand the comment anyways...so really no difference).

What's the point of downvoting? My only guess is that there's people who are salty about something it said about some source they like. Yet I don't see anyone providing an alternative to MediaBiasFactCheck...

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395 comments

It said MSNBC had a leftist bias. The bot, and by extension its developers, have as much credibility as your Fox News watching uncle who calls everything they don't like "communism".
- MSNBC is left wing! I can understand objecting to some of the others but this one is clear as day.
  
  I'm 99% certain you're from the United States if you think MSNBC is anything beyond center to center left.
  
  Political stances are relative across the globe. You can't just draw a line in the middle of American political talking points and then apply that generalization to the rest of the world. It's more useful to describe specific ideologies (although even that gets pretty muddy fast), but that wouldn't be very practical for a bit either. Imagine if it somehow concluded that Mother Jones has a "minarchist-capitalist" bias. Still, I question the use of this bot, which is probably based on US terms, running this analysis on a site called "lemmy.world".
  
  Which is why the bot is not useful - it literally tries to standardize political stances when that's actually impossible.
  
  Originally from Canada, so close enough
  
  We seem to have a different opinion of what is left-wing and what is not. I do not think the Democratic party is left-wing at all. It is centre-right to right (with the Republican party being far-right).
  I know of none American left-wing news outlets and the only left-wing bias I know of is truth.
  
  As an outsider, the Dem party is in a funky spot politically. Whilst it economically is to the right, many of its social policies it endorses are leftist. Their emphasis on equality of outcome rather than equality of opportunity is a large part of that, regulation of expressions and policy of migration.
  Where I live, most of our political parties are left of the dems economically (basic welfare is not even a debate), but many would clearly be right of them (though usually not even close to the republicans) in social policy.
  
  Yeah, living in a parliamentary democracy means I have to make an effort to wrap my head around how the US "democratic" institution works. The internal structure of the Democratic Party has more in common with our democratic structure than the structure of their "competing" parties. As a result there is more room for difference within the Democratic Party than within a political party in our system, but the political difference between parties in our system is greater than those within the democratic party.
  Whilst it economically is to the right, many of its social policies it endorses are leftist.
  My analysis has long been that there is no political will to implement leftist economical policies in the US, i.e. those that really matter in the grand scheme of things, even though there exists a semi-conscious wish for them within the populace. Please do not misunderstand, increasing equity between people of different backgrounds is important, but important single issues such as gay marriage are insufficient if they do not come along with, or better yet, as a product of equity of material conditions. It was all the same with the feminist movement where social advancements were conceded in lieu of increasing their economical statuses, with the division in measurable quantities, such as income or capital ownership still going strong (note I do not advocate changing the ruling elite from one subset of people to another subset of different characteristics, but instead saying that capital ownership should be transferred from the subset to the whole).
  Strengthening the political power of the marginalized by increasing the material conditions of their strata is the best way to make social progress, which the ruling elite of the US is painfully aware and which is why they sometimes are willing to skip the first step and reach the inevitable second immediately. The discrepancy between the people's wants and needs for leftist policies, again conscious or not, and the actual politics of the US, is deeply connected to the Democratic Party's willingness to concede these social changes without losing the backing of the capital interests that fund them.
  
  Sure, the Democrats aren't calling for a literal communist revolution. But there are realistically only two parties in the US and MSNBC is a non-stop, hyper-partisan booster for the party that's further to the left.
  
  I am not from the US so why should I base my definition of left-wing on the Democratic party (and subsequently arrive upon the wrong conclusion that the Democratic party is leftist)? More importantly, why would you?
  If you want to talk relatively, use relative terms. That being said, left of the farthest right is not very useful, which is precisely why I care about the distinction.
  
  Because MSNBC is an American organization and their coverage is American-focused, their bias relative to American politics is what's relevant here. It doesn't matter what their beliefs or policy positions are relative to any particular standard, what matters is whether or not their work presents the news accurately or in a way intended to mislead or influence their viewers in favor of one side or the other, which they clearly do. We don't even need to agree on whether the Democrats are a 'real' left party, only that they're to the left of the alternative and that MSNBC favors them.
  
  Because MSNBC is an American organization and their coverage is American-focused, their bias relative to American politics is what’s relevant here.
  I understand what you are trying to say, but I disagree. They are making claims about a lot of news outlets in other countries, which means they cannot present an American skewed perspective as the truth (unless what they really want is to export political views and exert influence domestically and abroad, now we might be talking here).
  It doesn’t matter what their beliefs or policy positions are relative to any particular standard, what matters is whether or not their work presents the news accurately or in a way intended to mislead or influence their viewers in favor of one side or the other, which they clearly do.
  All reporting should be held to the highest standard. Anyone seriously attempting to critique and comment on reporting at a meta level, should hold themselves to the same, or even a higher standard, for the same reason. What I am essentially arguing is that the MediaBiasFactCheck falls in line with pretty much all of US news as mass propaganda machines in the interest of capital. If you disagree, why do you think they operate at all?
  
  In any civilised country Bernie fucking Sanders would be considered centre right at best. A vast majority of your politicians are corporate stooges with no political position of their own (though their owners are obviously far right and opposed to any form of human rights), but when it comes to voters most of the democratic party is right to far right, and republicans range from deranged lunatics to fascists and proud of it, in both cases mostly due to ignorance, brainwashing by your extremely biased media, Stockholm syndrome, and probably a good dose of brain damage due to lack of proper health care and regulations.
  There are no centre and much less left mainstream political parties or politicians whatsoever in the US. Anything remotely approaching the centre is labelled as communist and socially and mediatically ostracized and or ridiculed.
  The US has long devolved into a sad and tragic satire of a fascist dystopia, and any attempt to push its twisted worldviews and standards on the civilised world will naturally be met with hostility, out of sheer principle, self respect, and self defense.
  Your bot is extremely biased and obviously ill intentioned. It's harmful. It's malware. And it's spam.
  
  Left of fascism, but not leftist. Bernie frickin Sanders is barely left of center.

395 comments