What can a city do when neo-Nazis start marching down its streets?
What can a city do when neo-Nazis start marching down its streets?
The brazen appearance of white supremacist groups in Nashville left the city grappling with how to confront hateful speech without violating First Amendment protections.
The brazen appearance of white supremacist groups in Nashville left the city grappling with how to confront hateful speech without violating First Amendment protections.
They first arrived at the beginning of July: dozens of masked white supremacists, shuffling out of U-Hauls, to march through Nashville carrying upside-down American flags.
A week later, members of a separate neo-Nazi group, waving giant black flags with red swastikas, paraded along the city’s famed strip of honky-tonks and celebrity-owned bars. The neo-Nazis poured into the historic Metro courthouse to disrupt a City Council meeting, harassed descendants of Holocaust survivors and yelled racist slurs at young Black children performing on a downtown street.
The appearance of white nationalists on the streets of a major American city laid bare the growing brazenness of the two groups, the Patriot Front and the Goyim Defense League. Their provocations enraged and alarmed civic leaders and residents in Nashville, causing the city to grapple with how to confront the groups without violating free speech protections.
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Balancing the scales doesn’t solve the problem.
And neither does playing by the gentleman's rules of boxing when your opponent is using brass knuckles. Fucking "They go low, we go high"? Did we not learn our lesson? If a weapon is used, the correct answer is to make the opposition see why that weapon was banned in the first place - it's the same reason why many signatories of the Geneva Protocol allow for retaliation if chemical weapons are used against them.
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So left-wing protesters should continue to be arrested as long as Nazis are also arrested? Really?
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So left-wing protesters should continue to be arrested as long as Nazis are also arrested? Really?
... what? Not arresting Nazis isn't going to magically un-arrest left-wing protesters.
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It's also not going to arrest Nazis that have already done these things. So how about we don't arrest anyone for protesting and just make it legal from now on?
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It’s also not going to arrest Nazis that have already done these things.
You're fucking kidding me, right? You don't pre-arrest people. You arrest people after they've done shit.
So how about we don’t arrest anyone for protesting and just make it legal from now on?
God, why didn't we think of that brilliant solution before? How many left-wing lawyers and political organizations have simply overlooked that we can just make it legal to protest?
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I see, this is one of these "never try" situations. We could never stop left-wing protesters from being arrested so we should never try to stop it and advocate for that to end and instead just call for other people to be arrested too.
Because we shouldn't want people to have rights, we should want other people's rights taken away.
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I see, this is one of these “never try” situations. We could never stop left-wing protesters from being arrested so we should never try to stop it and advocate for that to end and instead just call for other people to be arrested too.
No, it's apparently one of those noble martyrdom things, where the correct response to getting brutalized by Nazis is to roll over and show how very moral you are by just passively taking it.
Because we shouldn’t want people to have rights, we should want other people’s rights taken away.
You do realize that this is already happening to left-wing protesters, right? The only thing you're advocating for is that left-wing protesters get the full force of the state laid down on them while Nazis are allowed to roam free because "It wouldn't be fair" to apply the same goddamn laws to them as long as those laws are on the books.
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You've convinced me. Never try to get back rights that were taken away from you. Just get vengeance.
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Vengeance is when you show why mutual disarmament is a good idea instead of showing that you won't fight back, and the less you fight back, the less vengeful you are.
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Got it. Fight back, but not for your rights which have been taken away from you.
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You do realize a society can do more than one thing at a time, right?
Like, demanding police chiefs to arrest Nazis under the same circumstances that they arrest left-wing protesters is not going to magically diminish the work of left-wing lawyers and politicians to redefine the rules so that protesters, in general, are not being arrested. Even application is kind of the point of laws, and not simply allowing but actually advocating that an unequal application of the law be perpetuated (because it wouldn't be fair if the Nazis got the same treatment as left-wing protesters) is, itself, incredibly damaging to the legitimacy of the government as a whole.
Fuck's sake.
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I'm sure police chiefs will get right on that
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I'm sure police chiefs will get right on arresting Nazis too. What's your point? We shouldn't advocate for not arresting people for protesting?
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Left-wing protestors not getting arrested isn't even on the table here, so I don't see why the argument should be couched based on that.
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Why isn't it on the table? Shouldn't it be on the table?
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Because allowing these nazis to continue marching in the street will have zero impact on what happens to left-wing protestors, and denying these nazis the right to march on the streets will also have zero impact on what happens to left-wing protestors.
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Okay, but you said left-wing protesters not getting arrested isn't on the table. Why not? Why shouldn't we do what we can to change that?
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Yes, but I don't see how that applies to this situation. The jack boots who arrest people for expressing their First Amendment rights aren't going to stop just because some neo nazis were allowed to harass people on the streets via some left-wing action. They don't care about fairness or our rights and many of them are probably sympathetic to extreme right-wing groups.
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I can't believe I have to keep explaining this... Cops do not do things if they are not paid. If you pass a law saying that cops will be fined for arresting protesters, they won't arrest protesters. They may be right-wing, they may be thugs, but they don't do things for free most of the time.
Is that really beyond the pale for a local municipality to pass such a law?
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Left-wing protestors respect the social contract. NAZIs don't, and therefore do not deserve to be protected by it.
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People don't deserve equal rights under the law? Are you sure that's the position you want to take up? Because it sounds like a very Republican position.
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Punching NAZIs is always self-defense, even if they haven't punched you yet. 'Cause they're going to, 'cause that's what NAZIs do.
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So you are saying that yes, the law should be applied unequally.
As I said, Republicans agree with that position. You and they are just at odds with who the same laws should help and who the same laws should oppress.
Free speech for me and not for thee has been one of their modus operandi for a long time now.
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I'm not arguing with you about this semantic bullshit. To be a NAZI is to declare your intent to commit a crime. NAZIism is a criminal conspiracy.
There is no "equal protection" issue here, unless you think criminals deserve to be protected.
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Please show that your claim has a legal basis in U.S. law.
Because I can show you the basis for a right to protest. It's right in the Constitution.
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Did I even once mention US law? Did I say anything about prosecuting the NAZIs? Did I say anything -- anything at all -- about the government doing anything about them?
No. I said it is right and good to fuck them up.
Now quit being a goddamn apologist and deliberately trying to misrepresent my arguments.
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Okay, well this is about who has the legal right to protest, so your argument is not relevant to the discussion.
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