6mo ago

Just a reminder

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Nah i encourage people to vote for a better candidate
- There is no better candidate. Stein and West want a peace treaty in Ukraine, which implies concessions to Russia. Russia should not be rewarded for invading a sovereign nation, destroying its cities, slaughtering its people, and kidnapping its children.
  It would be like if a treaty for Gaza was that the fighting would stop but in return Israel would get to build their own settlements on the Palestinian land they've destroyed.
  Unless Stein and West specify that they want the total withdrawal of all Russian forces and a restoration of the borders prior to Russia's conquest of Crimea, in addition to reparations to rebuild what they destroyed in Ukraine, the two of them are no better.
  
  Can you find me a source on Stein calling for a peace treaty in Ukraine?
  
  Huh, TIL she has a blog.
  https://jillstein.net/blog/2023/02/20/rage-against-the-war-machine-jill-stein-remarks-feb-19/
  "As a first step, we need an immediate cease fire and negotiations to ensure the security and autonomy of all parties, as provided for in the Minsk accords."
  She blames the US for Russia's decision to invade as well.
  I will concede she doesn't directly call for a peace treaty, but she is not explicit about what the negotiations and conditions of a cease fire should be, and it's very important to know those terms. I'm all for an end to violence, but her using the word negotiations suggests to me that Russia would get something out of the deal, which is unacceptable. Russia should gain nothing whatsoever to stop an invasion they started.
  Perhaps I'm just being paranoid and overly skeptical because of what I've seen other non mainstream politicos say about a ceasefire. I think we can both agree however that she needs to heavily expand on her Ukraine position and explain exactly what terms she'd want for an end to hostilities.
  
  Im pretty sure her platform has always been for less US military involvement around the world. Meaning, US not being a party to the terms for ending hostilities. No more weapons to Ukraine, but also to Israel.
  
  I mean ending weapons to Ukraine is a terribly idea. That would be like ending aid to Gaza. The only thing keeping Ukraine from Gaza is the military aid. Without it, it would end up in a similar position to Gaza in the eventual status quo.
  If we want to prevent more apartheid states and neocolonialism like Israel/Gaza, we need to keep arming Ukraine.
  The really key thing here is letting Ukraine decide what Ukraine wants to do. This whole war is because Ukraine wanted closer relations with the West over Russia, and that's their sovereign right. They aren't a vassal of Russia that has to do what they want. As long as Ukraine wants to keep fighting, we should help them fight. If they want a peace treaty, then we help in peace talks. They should get to decide their own destiny.
  And that's what really makes Ukraine different from other armed conflicts that the US has meddled in. And it's why we need to keep sending them arms. Ending the supply like she wants to would be devastating.
  
  This is a hallucination. Russia doesn't want a destroyed failed state on their border. Nor do the want to govern Ukrainian language speakers. Israel wants the land and the removal/death of its inhabitants.
  Once peace terms are agreed upon, Russia will keep, rebuild, and govern in the Russian-speaking eastern regions.
  Russia doesn't want a NATO-friendly government on its borders. Peace will occur when either Ukraine has no soldiers to fight with or agrees to not align with NATO in negotiations.
  
  So you're saying that as long as Ukraine does what Russia wants, the war will end -- because Ukraine isn't allowed to make sovereign decisions that upset Russia?
  You're advocating for imperialism. Guess that's okay with you as long it isn't the West doing it, huh?
  
  You're advocating for imperialism.
  You mistake analysis for advocacy.
  If Mexico started making military and security agreements to host Chinese security assets on our southern border, I wouldn't be surprised if the US took military actions to stop it. I'd fight that decision, but I'd understand why the US made it.
  I simply want the deaths to stop. It is looking like the only path to that is Russia having control over the eastern parts of Ukraine.
  Who would have guessed that sovereignty is violated by war?
  This conflict did not begin in 2022. The western conceptualization of it did, because the preceding events make their current narrative look illegitimate. US foreign policy is to instigate events like these in neighboring states of other regional powers.
  Let's not forget the US violated Ukrainian sovereignty by interfering in a coup to overthrow Yanukovych in 2014. Was Ukraine sovereign when the US gave intelligence to Svoboda loyalists so they could hunt down the former head of state? Was Ukraine sovereign when Victoria Nuland was ruling out candidates for subsequent heads of state?
  I wish for Ukrainians to live happy, healthy, and long lives free of interference by foreign powers. I understand this to be impossible at present. They will never have an independent state or foreign policy again, regardless of who wins this war.
  You wish for Ukrainians to continue to throw themselves into the furnace to beat Russia. They will have just as little sovereignty, but far more dead Ukrainians.
  I feel so sorry for Ukrainians, especially those who wanted none of this.

762 comments