7mo ago

Have you got any weird questions for the opposite gender?

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Yes. Why can't those of us with a vajayjay join you guys in the Freemasons? Are you talking about us in there, or what do you do in there?
- Freemasons also don't let atheists in. Was a hard pass from me at that point. I'm not faking belief in some deist creator god just to join in their weird rituals and bridge clubs.
  
  Same for me and the Moose.
  
  Yeah I don’t believe in any Meese either
  
  A Møøse once bit my sister
- No idea about the Freemasons but we do talk about you on the alternate lemmy.world server port... oh wait I wasn't supposed to mention that.
  
  Just me?
  
  No, but mostly you.
- To tell the truth, it's a complex question, like "why are there no female Christian priests". Christianity is a wide thing, with lots of subdivisions. So is freemasonry.
  Why no woman ? There are historical reasons: a founding text (Anderson's Constitution) states that to be a Freemason, you have to be a free man. There are also old initiation rituals (a bit like a Masonic baptism) where the person is bare-chested. For traditionalists, this forever excludes women. This is particularly the case in the Anglo-Saxon world. Traditinnalists also often exclude atheists, LGBTQIA+ people, etc.
  But worldwide, there are also progressive lodges, mixed or even feminine (which accept male visitors, but do not initiate men). I live in Europe, and in my loge we are about 10 men and 20 women. Lots of us are social workers, teachers, nurses or public servants. Lots of us are atheists or agnostics. Some of us are gay, lesbian or bi.
  About what we do, one more time: it depends. The main idea is to have philosophical questionings, based on ritual and symbolism (A bit like a religious person who uses a holy text to nourish their philosophical reflections). All lodges also have charities, because the aim of Freemasonry is to improve oneself in the hope of making the world a better place.
  But some progressive lodges (like mine) go further and are places for reflection on society, in a place where everyone can share their point of view without being cut off (this is an absolute rule) and without judgment.
  In these lodges, all kinds of issues of social progress are discussed, including feminist issues. But also topics like the defense of democracy, the right to a dignified end of life, the impact of AI on the job market, ecology, the rise of the far right, and so on.
  In men's lodges (I sometimes go as a visitor), even the progressive ones, there's very little talk of women in my experience. Except at communal meals, where you can hear the same mysogynistic remarks as in any all-male group (ewww, imho)
  
  If that's the gist of it, why does it tend to be secretive? It doesn't strike me as the kind of thing that would inspire people to be low-profile about.
  
  There are many reasons for secrecy.
  Showing that you know how to keep a secret shows that you're trustworthy.
  There are also certain rites of passage that are more striking if you don't know what to expect (but it's always benevolent).
  Also, as it's a place where speech is totally free, it makes it easier to open up. For example, if we're having a discussion about LGBTQIA+ rights, I can share my experiences as a bi person to enrich the discussion, and I don't have to worry about being outed.
  Finally, in Europe, the memory of Nazi persecution is still vivid, and today's far right hates us too. Secrecy, or at least discretion, is a protection.
  But I have to admit that it raises suspicions and feeds conspiracy theories. So secrecy has its downside
- There are all female lodges though.
  
  Eastern Star
  
  I've heard of these but also heard they're not made with the same sense of what they're there for in mind, being susceptible enough to new ideas that they give a sliver of skepticism over the purity of the experience as one experienced by members of the historical rites. In fact, they and the classic groups are so disassociated with one another that the more historical groups will excommunicate more liberal versions of themselves using their likeness. Or so I've been let on.
- Everything I've read about the Freemasons has been clearly written by people who hate freemasons, I mean... I don't keep going past the obvious tell, but I've been inside looking out on a my own strange outsider culture so, I just can't take haters at face value. As far as I can tell. It's a club.
- We do!

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