The atrocities at Al-Shifa Hospital are clear, but Israeli politicians say not a single civilian was killed. It’s just one of several outlandish claims Israel has made recently.
A human rights monitor documented the sniping of at least 13 children in and around Shifa Hospital, all between the ages of 4 and 16.
There have been actual independent autospies done, I don't mean a quick glance at a body. And I would build tunnels too if my neighbor had a history of bombing me and seizing my terrority.
Every non-state militant group is claimed to use the civilian population as human shields. This simply isn't true, it's rhetoric to justify the bombing because it's simpler than fighting on the ground. In assymetric warfare a resistance group has no choice but to be active in the place they are stuck at. Even if they were using human shields, it shows the IDF is heartless because they have no concern for any civilian deaths, including Israeli hostages.
It's like if a bank robber took a hostage and a cop just blasted through them, killing half the bank. That would be horrific and unnecessary murder.
More like if a bank robber took a hostage and the police bulldozed their house, then the rest of the block "just to be sure" and "to send a message".
They could, I don't know, surrender, release the hostages, call for elections, etc., maybe have even slight tolerance to other cultures and try participating in trade? Nobody made Gaza put such short sighted leadership in charge. They don't have to choose to be isolated theocratic extremists with a singular purpose of ridding the holy land of infidels, labeled by all of the free world as a terrorist organization. There'd be peace in Gaza tomorrow if Hamas gave themselves up today. Even Japan eventually surrendered.
If Hamas wasn't there, an even more effective group would emerge to fight Israel. The offensive on Oct 7th was by a coalition of groups. You say no one made Gaza put them in charge, but Israel has spent millions propping up Hamas. They were chosen by Israel specifically because of their unpalatable extremism. Israel has supported Hamas materially while taking steps to thwart other groups. Israel has used all avenues possible for years to create the situation we see now.
Sounds like they had good reason to prop up Hamas at times to consolidate the most insane, most extreme religious ideologues, and it seems obvious that's the way to deal with such intellectual contagions. Like what is it you think Hamas believes in, as far as social order, jurisprudence, and justice? These are actual religious fascists who what to cleanse their holy land of infidels so that a few men can rule as absolute theocratic dictators whose ideas of law, morality, and human rights change with the wind, and they think that this is the actual future in store for them because God has chosen so.
I haven't looked at your post history but I'm virtually certain that you are lucky Israel and Egypt would prevent you from crossing Gaza's border, because Hamas would almost certainly kill you for your opinions on government, like immediately.
What tf does it matter what they believe when there is an ongoing slaughter of thousands of people? Palestine is more than Hamas. You say Hamas is evil but it's a good thing Israel put them in place? You are seriously heartless. I pray Israel is destroyed. According to your logic, it would be justified to kill every other Israeli at random to stop religious extremists in their government.
No I didn't say that. Israel didn't "put Hamas in place" and that is absolutely not my logic.
Sorry, I wasn't trying to imply you believe that, but you said it sounded like Israel had good reason to prop them up, and you didn't deny that Israeli policies allowed Hamas to take power in Gaza.
I'm sorry I called you heartless also, this is obviously a heated topic so I might take it a bit seriously, I don't know you though so I apologize, I don't assume anyone is heartless and it's a rude thing to say.
This guy has been spouting genocide justification in other threads as well, they're a lost cause. They've written essays about how all Palestinians are Hamas and should all be wiped out, denying that starvation is even happening, etc. Good luck trying to save this one!
That makes sense, I doubt I'll convince many people I argue with directly about anything, but I feel compelled to respond to Israeli apologia mostly for lurkers that might doubt the heinousness of the IDF, and to let anyone else know it won't go unchallenged, it's the very least I can do to defend the honor of the people being massacred. Obviously there is much more needed to be done.
I respect the effort. I feel like these conversations are many drops but are creating a collective tidal wave, I just find the concept of defending mass murder over learning something new is such an alien concept to me like I can't have conversations with people who are so bad faith, like, to a point where its homicidal. It's scary.
Someone said a revolution is a series of sparks that create a fire, I feel hopeful that even small things like helping someone see the truth of a situation can help. But yeah it can be baffling the perspectives people have, it's hard to believe they aren't a paid shill or something sometimes. Also In a way I see arguing with views so opposed to mine as a way to ensure my own beliefs are solidly supported.
Don't apologize to @JustZ@lemmy.world. He is a genocide denier who is oksy with dehumanizing Palestinians and denied any Israeli atrocities by calling them "just reports". If you prove him wrong, he will say that you "got tricked".
In my eyes he is just a racist.
Reporting some of his nonsense works but he only gets temp bans and then jumps right back into the quagmire of his own words.
True I shouldn't have apologized ha, I felt like I was being a bit harsh and don't like to make assumptions, but I hadn't looked through their posts or argued with them too much. I should know better. If anyone is doubting what's happening now it's not worth trying to argue.
Yep... that person told me they know more about apartheid than south africa... this is what we are dealing with.
I find it so pathetic... he thinks he is the one who is "awakened" and we are all jusy blind. I'm sure it brings him some kind of satisfaction thinking he is smarter than everyone else while cheering for the literal mass killing of school children and and piles of innocent adults now rendered to dead decaying bodies.
The IDF have been demolishing residential buildings after seizing them. The IDF destroyed medical equipment, supplies and set fires on floors of al-Shifa hospital after raiding it. They target journalists in their home and kill their entire families with air strikes. Can you tell me the 'good reason' for these acts? What reason do you have for supporting atrocities like what Israel has been doing for years?
