1y ago

YSK: If you're on Lemmy.World or Sh.itjust.works you should not subscribe to any Beehaw communities

Why YSK: Beehaw defederated from Lemmy.World and Sh.itjust.works effectively shadowbanning anyone from those instances. You will not be able to interact with their users or posts.

Edit: A lot of people are asking why Beehaw did this. I want to keep this post informational and not color it with my personal opinion. I am adding a link to the Beehaw announcement if you are interested in reading it, you can form your own views. https://beehaw.org/post/567170

You're viewing a single thread.

500 comments

I don’t understand: did something serious happened, or it’s them overreacting?
- It's just down to Lemmy not having good enough mod tools yet. Beehaw is a carefully curated walled garden instance that hosts some high quality communities; they are availing themselves of the only real tool they have to curb an influx of bad actors from other instances.
  Here's hoping its temporary. The admin team here at sh.itjust.works clearly operates in good faith.
  
  They have stated as much, and are open to refederating once the mod tools can handle the influx of people joining instances with open sign-ups. Side effect of the reddit refugee crisis.
  
  but why bother? they can still enter from any of the thousands of other instances that allow free registration. if they want to troll, they are still able to do that.
  
  I'm not an admin, so I'm partially paraphrasing and partially speculating, but my understanding is that we're still in the whack-a-mole phase of lemmy moderation due to the immaturity of the platform and the tooling surrounding it. sh.itjust.works and lemmy.world were the most visible issues because they grew VERY quickly and have no barriers to registration - they became big enough and some users problematic enough to warrant a full, well-articulated post from the Beehaw admins regarding the defederation.
  Take a look at the massive list of blocked instances on beehaw.org/instances and you'll see that the level of care and attention regarding this specific defederation makes this situation fairly unique. Smaller instances probably just get banned near immediately. Sucks that the end result is for us to be lumped in with racists and the like, but it looks like all involved parties expect this to be resolved eventually.
  Like I said, it's just a matter of tooling. Our admins are doing an excellent job, considering. I know this because I watch the bullshit I report get dealt with in near real time. I don't envy the work they're putting in.
- They defederated because they were both large Lemmy instances with zero review process for joining users, and they'd rapidly starting acquiring bots and bad actors. Because of federation, these accounts could interact on Beehaw's server like they were locals.
  Beehaw on the other hand, has a human-powered review process for signup. It isn't strict, but it keeps out bots or low-effort users. Beehaw's community goal means that reducing the amount of bots, bad actors, and low-effort users on the platform is a priority for them. Their moderating is also human-powered, and very involved - not outright banning/blocking. They reach out to users to discuss their content's intent, and issue warnings/requests personally as needed.
  That level of moderation is fantastic for fostering community and is compassionate for ignorance and error; but it isn't scalable when being hammered by bots and an influx of new accounts. Beehaw's only protection from instances that shelter bots and bad actors was to defederate from them until those instances were able to address them somehow.
  The Beehaw admins have reached out to the admins of the other instances; their hope is to find a solution that reduces the amount of bots and spam accounts creating on .world and .works. They don't want defederation to be a permanent solution, it's just the only feasible one they had.
  
  There sign up process was nearly successful in putting me off from ever trying Lemmy. I almost gave up finding instances which would let me join without filling in a completely stupid form where I have to state what communities I will join when I haven't even had a chance to get to know what communities are out there!!.
  
  Same here. The signup process for Lemmy sucks. It’s confusing and instances make no logical sense for account management. Personally I have no interest in other instances, so eventually I just picked the biggest and that’s what I’m sticking with.
- The admins of beehaw are more Liberal (if you are anywhere in the LGBTQIA+ space the other side's content is largely considered offensive enough to defederate from) and presumably the other way around.
  Annoyingly I guess it all comes around to politics and which side of history you want to be on. Personally I'm all for letting other people be in charge of whatever the fuck they want to do with their life - to an extent - but context matters
  Boozilla's comment explains in better detail and I 100% recommend a read to gain a better understanding. Basically the moderation tools on Lemmy aren't quite up to stuff yet
  
  I don't know anything about the issue being that Beehaw is too liberal, only that some other instances were 1. Too easy to make accounts on and 2. Allowing an influx of super right/downright nazi punks to start spamming without any serious moderation.
  
  Yeah I definitely wouldn't call Beehaw "too liberal", though I don't personally see being "for freedom" as a bad thing - you're definitely right. It's more about the moderation tools and being able to separate opposing points of view from relevant communities
  ...and in case I have not made it perfectly clear I think the fact that Nazis still exist in the information age is absolutely fucking absurd

500 comments