2d ago

Safety first

137 comments

FFS I can watch you clear a firearm and the first thing I will do is clear it when handed to me or I pick it up at the range.
Always assume it's loaded. It's not hard.
- same. people think they're smarter than themselves.
  
  How do we make people feel stupid again?!
- I'm not a gun person so maybe I was just fooled by a video. I also probably don't use the right terms so forgive me.
  But it was awhile back; one video I saw of a guy showing how he was clearing the chamber of a pistol. Pulled it back from a full clip and counted each one. He counted 8 (which was expected for the size). Kept clearing it while nothing came out. Asked the viewer "Clear? Nope. Did you notice what's wrong"?
  Pulls the gun back to show the bullet still visually in the chamber.
  Apparently it was a pistol with a recall or common issue of not correctly clearing the last round. He had an additional bullet chambered at the start so he counted the clip size but the pistol had 9 rounds initially with one still completely capable of firing at the end.
  Like, he literally pulled it back and cleared it like 20 additional times. Bullet still just sitting there at the end.
  Will try to find the video.
  
  Yeah, it sounds like a malfunction. It should clear by racking the slide until nothing comes out, but ALWAYS verify by checking the chamber.
  
  A faulty extractor would easily cause this issue. That's why you also have to visibly inspect the chamber. A round would be easily visible while the slide is back.
  ALWAYS treat every gun as if it is loaded
  
  Yep yep. I will only trust that the chamber of a gun is empty if I can shine a light down the front, and see it from the back. Even then, damn bullet goblins can pop a bullet in there in the blink of an eye, so you still want it pointed away from anything that can feel pain
- Acts and prove, acts and prove.
  https://www.firearmstraining.ca/actsprove.htm
- I have watched a fat dude with a beard turn a ping pong ball into an orange using nothing but a solo cup and a quick wit. I do not trust, I only verify.
  
  How?

obligatory firearm safety reminder:
rule one is "keep your finger off the trigger until ready to fire"
rule two is "never point the weapon at anything you are not willing to destroy"
rule three is "always treat any weapon as though it is loaded"
rule four is "know your target and what lays beyond it"
only by holding each other accountable can we make sure that everyone stays safe and has fun.
- My grandpa who takes me shooting was going over the firearm safety rules and with rule two I was like “that seems extreme” and his response it’s supposed to be, a gun killing or injuring or damaging isn’t as vivid as the word destroy
  And yeah for me the other rules kinda seemed a given, bullets move fast and possibly through our hanging rubber targets, the gun probably can’t fire if you don’t give it a squeeze, and as for loaded better safe than sorry.
  These rules seemed almost obvious to me, and yet there’s all these guys at the range behaving like absolute idiots
  
  My friend's dad stopped us just in time before we tried skeet shooting with a handgun and a rifle. We were on their property, which spanned miles. His dad said, "I don't know what the maximum range is on those, but is that really how you want to find out?"
- Thanks. I've never owned, fired, or even held a gun.
  I have no intention to. I knew most of these, but I'm glad to see it officially written out like this.
  If I'm ever in the position where I need to handle a gun, I can do so more safely then I would have before.
  Good work. Keep that shit up.
- Calling a firearm "fun" is already part of the problem
  
  Disagree. I’m not from the US, so maybe guns being seen as fun is more of a cultural issue in not aware of, but plenty of weapons are seen as fun here in the UK. And while we do have gun crime, I think firearms are seen differently here vs the US.
  People will go axe throwing for fun. With Scouts, we shot air rifles on camp a number of times (supervised by people who knew what they were doing). Knife throwing is also a thing. Clay Pigeon shooting is also not uncommon here.
  I genuinely believe using a weapon on a (non-living) target is fun for a lot of normal, well adjusted people.
  
  Have you ever tried it?
  There's nothing quite so uniquely irritating as someone intensely critical of something they know very little about.
  
  Firearms are fun. Knives are fun. Martial arts are fun. At least to a decently large number of people. That doesn't mean that their roles in society don't suck.
  One might say that the danger (to people, to society...) outweighs the benefits of allowing target shooting as a sport. Maybe, I'd still disagree, but that's an opinion we can argue about. We don't allow people to build their own nuclear reactors for fun, for example. But saying something isn't "fun" is ignoring that a lot of people perceive the world differently.
  
  I'm not American, and this kind of absolute is completely unacceptable.
  You're basically fun-shaming.
  There's plenty of stuff that's universally disliked, like... Idk, murder.... But that's not the whole reason guns exist. Sport shooting, hunting, event target practice, can be lots of fun to people, and they all involve guns, and no person is harmed, if done correctly.
  Stop being so hateful.
  I don't even like guns. I've never held, nor fired one. And I wouldn't ever, even slightly, say that there is no "fun" to be had with firearms.
  You're a dick.
- My ccw class taught updated rules that I think are better:
  1: always keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to fire.
  2: always keep your weapon pointed in a safe direction. (In a defense situation, the bad guy is a safe direction)
  3: always treat as loaded until verified otherwise.(Some firearms need to be dry fired to be cleaned)
  4: know your target and it's surroundings. You are responsible for every bullet that leaves your weapon.
  (Formatting edit)
- Yeah you expect the American public to abide by the rules and make smart choices?
  
  To quote K from Men In Black: "a person, can be smart. but people, are dumb."
  also yes. I do.
  
  I'm a member of the American public. I abide by the rules, make smart choices, and don't tolerate those who don't. All my friends are the same way.
  Less than 1% of American gun owners commit 100% of gun violence in the US.
  
  People are a whole lot better about firearm safety than they are pretty much anything else here (driving laws, workplace safety, building codes...). The US has a whole fuckload of problems because of guns, but their ubiquity has given rise to a culture of gun safety that's pretty universal here. It's why we have so few accidental firearm deaths (... relative to the absurd number of guns in the country, that is)
  
  I would argue that they do follow those rules. They're just willing to destroy other kids at school with hopefully more kids behind them. Same goes for muslims in mosques, etc
  
  About 80 percent of the time yes. Even the dumbest slack jawed hick knows not to fuck around with guns, doesn't make them not twitchy but that's a different issue. It's white trash and rich yuppy types who are generally the threat.
- 1: Don't have a gun.
  The only rule You really need.
  
  I get your point, but hunting, as a sport, is about as old of a sport as you can get, and for that sport there will always be people who prefer firearms.
  At a basic level, firearms really can't be barred from most countries as a blanket rule for everyone that is never allowed to be broken.
  Therefore, firearms exist and people have them. That might not be you, or your neighbor, nor anyone you know, but they exist and people have them.
  If you are ever in the rare position of being in the presence of one, and/or the situation where you need to handle one for any reason, would this information not be better to know ahead of time, rather than unknown until that moment?
  It's like first aid, IMO. I've known first aid for well over two decades, including CPR and everything. I've never needed anything more than how to correctly apply a bandaid. I'm still grateful to know what I know in case I'm ever in a situation that I may need it. That situation might never come, it may never happen. I'd rather know, and never have the need to know, than have the need to know, and not know.
  Safety, first aid, anything that keeps people alive, should be universal knowledge. Doesn't matter if it's guns, cars, CPR, bandaids, or forklift safety... It's better to know it, and never need it, than need it, and not know it. Period.
  
  Oh come on. I get what you are trying to point out, but that is like saying you don't need to know forklift safety rules, as you will never operate a forklift.

Take a bullet, leave a bullet
- I can't tell you how many times this has saved me at checkout.
  
  Wow you must encounter some really aggressive cashiers

Every gun you see is always loaded.
This is clearly a lie, but is a useful lie that if you live by will make yourself as well as others safer around guns.
- Better way to word it is: "Treat every gun as if it is loaded"
  
  Disagree. Every firearm I’ve ever handled has been loaded.
  Sure, sometimes I’m wrong, but even a hint of “well it might not be loaded” seems like a dangerous slippery slope.
  
  Followed with:
  Never aim your weapon at anything you do not intend to destroy.
  Keep your trigger finger straight and along the receiver until you intend to fire your weapon.
  Keep your weapon on safe until ready to fire.
  Be aware of your target, your surroundings, and what lies beyond your target.

Rule #0 of firearm safety: Trust no one.
- not even myself from an hour ago! or 5 minutes ago! Every single time one is picked up it is checked
  
  Never trust the last person, especially if the last person was you.
- Nope, Rule #0 is: have no firearm.
  Edit: americans don't like this.

I don't get America, a place where you can walk around with a weapon that has no purpose other than to cause harm
- Some context here: this is almost certainly a gun store, and this is going to be from the check-in station for when people come to jlhave their guns worked on, a holster fitted, or for gun sales.
  I used to work an a major outdoors store and we'd have dozens of customer-owned guns come in a day, and we'd find a round in the chamber a few times a year, and we have them hell over it every time. We also had jar of shame like this one.
  The worst that I experienced was when I was mounting a scope on a 300 Win Mag. The rifle was checked in up front, made it through 2 salesmen who helped them select a scope, and then to me for the mounting.
  I had the customer shoulder the gun so I could find their eye position, got the appropriate mounts, and took the gun to the back and spent some time.mounting everything.
  When everything was mounted properly, the optic zeroed with the bore scope (good enough to hit paper at 100 yards), and the gun ready to go I worked the action to check clearance on the bolt and a nickel-plated round was ejected. The guy at the gun check-in had seen the color of the jacket and assumed it was the magazine follower (they're supposed to che k more thoroughly, and the next 3 of us in line did the same quick visual check and were fooled by the silver color.
  My asshole was puckered for a week, and when I reported the incident to the firearm department manager he threw a shifting at everyone involved (including the customer), but let me off easy since I reported the incident and he could see how shaken I was.
  But it also was a great demonstration of the importance of the rules of gun safety. Even though we all "knew" the gun was unloaded, there wasn't any real danger since we all still treated it like it was loaded at all times.
  Safety requires multiple layers. With the 4 rules (treat all guns as if they are loaded, do not point the gun at anything you aren't willing to kill or destroy, be aware of your target and what's behind your target, and keep your finger off the trigger until ready to fire), you can screw up on any 3 of the rules without anyone being injured.
- I have a neighbor who appears to be schitzophrenic. He seems to think I hacked his wifi for some reason. He's threatened me in the parking lot, assaulted another resident, and I have a video of him standing outside my bedroom window in the middle of the night, pointing at it, and swinging a baseball bat. I bought a gun. I carry it when I go to my car or the mailbox or do laundry. Because the cops didn't do shit and I am not going to get murdered by this motherfucker.
  
  Idk why but you reminded me of this story lol.
  I had a neighbor for a while who would walk around talking to himself. The closest I got to him, I was walking to the dumpsters with the trash and he was walking the other way towards me. As I was walking by I nodded and said "how's it going" y'know as ya do, and he responded with a totally normal "fuck you american you come to africa I kill you yadda yadda." I laughed and said "Ok you have a nice one too" and everything was cool, but I probably would have been worried if I hadn't had a gun concealed on me at the time.
  Luckily I didn't have to use it! Closest I've got was a different dude who pulled a knife on me and my then-gf in a parking lot in '19. I moved the concealment and grabbed the grip and for some unknown reason he decided to walk away without pressing the issue further. I assume he found someone else to rob, no clue what happened after I bought my groceries and left.
  
  I've actually drawn once in a defensive situation. Juvenile mountain lion was curious. I was growling and hissing at it but it kept coming so I drew. It finally turned and I didn't have to try and kill it.
  Peak life experience. I was really lucky to get see one and I'm so glad I didn't have to shoot it.
- You see, we might just need to cause death at any moment, one never knows, there's too much life around all the time. Someone's gotta keep that in check.
- It's for killing MAGA. Washington and his friends were worried people would try to create tyranny, so they made sure Americans all had guns to kill the people who do that.
- how do you expect us to protect ourselves from other gun owners?
  
  I can't tell if this is a joke or you can't see the irony haha

You know how old I was when I learned the most important rule of firearms? Five.
I learned it from watching an anime called Saber Rider and the Star Sheriffs.
The rule is "the weapon is always loaded, treat it as such".
When a fucking anime from the 80s has better firearms safety than a boatload of CERTAIN people, something is horrifyingly wrong.
- Idiots?

Its easier to paint all gun owners as reckless at best, criminals at worst, when you have dumbasses like this walking around. Truth is, the vast majority of american gun owners I've met have been strict followers of the 4 rules. If I ever meet someone who isn't, they immediately become strangers after I leave the situation. Ill try to correct behavior, but not everyone is receptive. Thats where common sense gun laws would be great to have, like proving competency with a firearm and the safety rules especially, every year if you want a ccw. Unfortunately, the ccw in my state is an online course with 10 questions at the end, and fees and a waiting list to get your physical card. I could (and did, but did not carry until confident with my setup) get this ccw without ever having fired the gun I intend to carry, much less handled it safely.
Also, for people less familiar, if you are ever handed a firearm, IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO CLEAR IT YOURSELF. Just because someone clears it in front of you, does not make it clear. I dont care if the person field strips it in front of me, the first thing im doing after they hand it to me is clearing it myself.
Gun owners reading maybe? Please be more reponsible/safe with your firearms. Be as safe as you think you should, then be a little safer. There's countless little things to work on, like not breaching the fire line or responsible clearing before leave line. We all take a huge responsibility when we decide to carry concealed. You have to delete your ego, you can't be short fused. There's no room for prejudice, or stupidity. You alone are responsible for what comes out of your weapon, and if the responsibility is shrugged off, tragic things happen that you have to live with. Don't mess around, stay sharp.
Treat EVERY GUN as if its loaded (imagine that rounds can magically appear if you set it down or take eyes off, because they sometimes do!) Keep your finger off the trigger until ready and safe to fire. (Keep your booger hook off the bang switch!) Do not point your firearm at anything you are not willing to destroy (whether youre firing or not, whether its loaded or not) Fully know your target and all things behind it(bullets have a tendency to keep going)
- I dont care if the person field strips it in front of me, the first thing im doing after they hand it to me is clearing it myself.
  This kind of attitude is the exact right way to do it when safety is involved. You make it automatic, not a decision. It's like wearing your seatbelt. It saves you time and energy while producing the best results.
  Put another way: Crazy shit happens every day. You make it automatic not because you distrust the person unloading it in front of you. You do it because you shouldn't trust yourself to be perfectly flawless in life and death situations. You do it 100% of the times that you rationally know for certain that it's empty, so that you skip the check 0.00000% of the time that some crazy sequence of events quietly creates a dangerous situation.
- I'm honestly very anti-firearms, I live in the USA and while I have met young veterans who take good care of their firearms and exhibit excellent discipline, I have met enough dangerous folk waltzing around toting firearms to flex power at best or to carry out violence at worst, (many different walks of life), that I do not want fire arms in the hands of anyone. The state already has a monopoly on violence, thigh high sock wearing lesbians on lemmy, or people who served and choose to own and carry aren't really necessary. We'd be better off without them as a whole. And violence isn't the absolute solution some of my peers would make it out to be.
  
  Having observed the state, I do not trust it with a monopoly on violence. Yes, we might be better off without weapons. When we can guarantee that nazism will never, ever rise again, then we may feel free to disarm ourselves. Until then, that seems unwise. After all, ICE is doing most of their work in cities and states with harsh gun restrictions, where it's safe for them to oppress.

What the fuck are Americans doing?
- I’m no expert on their citizenry, but on average, probably the same fucking shit you or I are doing.
  
  But with guns.
- I ask myself this everyday
- "Well organized" "militia"
- Shop worker: "Clear your weapon sir."
  Customer: "Ain't loaded."
  Shop worker: "Sorry, store policy."
  Customer: "Fine" (clears weapon, ejects a live round) "Oops! How'd that get in there."
  Shop worker: (Puts the ejected round into the jar) "How can I help you today?"
- Dying, a lot
- Trying to convince each other that we're "responsible gun owners"

Ammmeeeeriiiiicaaaaa

Even from just movies and video games, I know to empty the breech and not just take out the magazine.
At the same time: It should be treated as loaded 100% of the time even if you just 100% fully unloaded it.
I go the extra mile and treat it as loaded even after taking it apart. Never know when the barrel tube might go rogue.
- Yep. When I check my rifling I do so from the back of the barrel lol.
  
  Ding ding ding. If you can see light when looking up the barrel through the breech/chamber, your weapon is very likely to be clear.
- I know to empty the breech and not just take out the magazine
  It is so very important to know that there is a right order in which to do this, too. Many many NDs come from people racking the slide then dropping the mag. At least one life that I know of would have been saved by getting the order right

I’ve had multiple people try and hand me a gun saying “It’s not loaded.” Let me see you clear it, please. I want to see light down that chamber if I’m going to accept that. Some guys get annoyed, but I once failed a gun safety course as a teen because I forgot to ask as the instructor as he handed me one. I will absolutely never forget that going forward.
- My rule is whenever anyone hands me a gun (why do people do that so often?) I always eject the magazine then rack the slide myself to verify. I don't trust the other guy not to do it too fast and not to have his finger on the trigger
- I taught my kids never to touch a gun unless the owner cleared it in front of them and showed them the empty chamber.

The town I used to live in has to have signs in the laundromat to remind people to check their pockets for ammo.
Apparently they've had to replace a couple dryers.
- Can a bullet fire just from a dryer? Wouldn’t that mean firearms would be randomly discharging in people cars in hot places like Arizona? Or is it somehow sparking or something from beating against the dryer like buttons from jeans or coveralls?
  Asking because I never knew that was a thing lol

If you aren’t condition 4 when entering, I’ll meet you at condition 0.

the perspective of this pic makes some of those rounds look like grenades

What a fucking dystopia it is, when people can just bring guns to stores. Why would you need a murder weapon, do you have that many enemies? Statistically you're more likely to use it on yourself, or a kid finds it and hurts itself or someone else. Unless it's in a safe, in which case it's useless for home protection when all your enemies are coming over to kill you. Seriously dude, what did you do to have that many people wanting to kill you. Do you want to know what I have for home protection? Machine gun? RPG? Wrong, I have locks. They still haven't killed me. I am being held hostage by my 3 cats though. Also, I'm nice to people, I don't have enemies.

Imagine living in a place where fire arms are a reality around you and you need constant worry about it.
The american dream.

repeal the 2nd
- With all due respect, right the fuck now we shan't.
  We shall, maybe, some time in a faraway future when things in society are, shall we say, less immediately threatening to literal life and liberty.
  gets off intoxicated soapbox
  So we shan't, maybe later it's a shall, but we shan't.
  Shan't.

My gun and I are always loaded so I would not be going to that store.
- Why would you not go to the store that is checking every firearm they handle to see if it's loaded? If you are handing your weapon to someone else and they aren't checking to see if it's loaded, you're in the wrong place.
  
  Why would you go to a gun store if you aren't always loaded and ready to fire? Not talking about a gun. (ps: pretty sure they're making a joke)
- aka "locked, cocked, and ready to unintentional discharge!" 💢

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