Rudy Giuliani just got smacked down as Trump's pardon is declared to have 'no impact' on the crushing state charges he still faces
Rudy Giuliani just got smacked down as Trump's pardon is declared to have 'no impact' on the crushing state charges he still faces
Sure it has a impact. If he accepts the pardon, he is admitting guilt. Non-guilty people have no need of a pardon. So take the pardon Guili, it will make the state charges that much more easy to prove guilt.
What is giving you the idea that a pardon automatically admits guilt? I've seen this so many times and it makes absolutely no sense. There's one court case from the 20's in which the court suggested that accepting a pardon "may imply guilt." And there's like 528 court cases saying the opposite. There's also nothing in the verbage of a pardon that states that. It simply removes any legal consequences from relevant acts. I'm not sure why so many people insist that if you accept any type of pardon for any reason, you are confessing to have perpetuated whatever you are accused of. It makes absolutely no sense. You could be guilty as hell. Or you could have been on the other side of the planet and accused of something random. I'm either case, all a pardon does is just get you out of trouble.
This isn't to say that I think Giuliani is innocent or anything. He's a complete and utter dirt bag. But of all things, him merely accepting a pardon is not the smoking gun a lot of people seem to think it is.
in which the court suggested that accepting a pardon “may imply guilt.”
That's what's called obiter dicta: a side comment with no direct bearing on the case at hand and with no potential to set precedent. And you're right, Garland (the name of the case) keeps getting cited by people as though it is precedent.
There is no part of the pardon process where admission of guilt is required, not even a checkbox on a form. You either accept a pardon or you don't. That's it.
Anyway, the existence (upheld by courts many times) of blanket pardons renders the admission of guilt argument absurd. If you accept a pardon for (for example) any crimes you might potentially be charged with between January and February of 2025, what are you pleading guilty to? Every one of those possible crimes? Really? And yeah, it's possible to pardon someone for something they haven't even been charged with yet. The only thing that has to be in the past is the time period the pardon covers.
Further evidence that the Garland dicta is bullshit is that, since the US was founded, pardons have, on occasion, been used to correct miscarriages of justice. In that case, even the person issuing the pardon is of the view that the pardonee is not guilty. So "we're pardoning you because we think you're not guilty, and to accept the pardon, you have to admit guilt"? Again, that makes no sense.
When I see this now all I can think of is Frank's Imports and Exports.
If only he'd had enough Chinese motor oil.....
Jean… Baptiste… Emanuel… Zorg.
That's exactly what I think every time I see this picture
I've always focused on the oil leak, but what's the deal with his right eye? On the right corner. Is it a sideways lizard eyelid? Is he wearing pure white sclera contacts over yellow eyeballs?
The yellow is the jaundice from cirrhosis of the liver seeping through.
Oh no, this smackdown may drive him to drink.
(Although to be honest, he will be drinking regardless....)
That man is ninety percent scotch.
Is this the same Rudy Giuliani that tried to have sex with a girl that he was told was under 18 in that Borat movie?
I thought it was the Rudy Giuliani who still pretends to have any credibility after hosting a press conference between a crematorium and a sex shop after a mix up over a hotel booking.
He's lawyer and would fully understand that a federal pardon wouldn't help him in state court. Not sure how he got "smacked down" here. I guess the headline "nothing changes for Rudy Giuliani" wasn't inflammatory enough.
Well…he was a lawyer. They don’t let him do that anymore.
The lawyer who represents himself has a Rudy Giuliani for a client
Giuliani's brain-rot is almost as severe as Trump's, so I'd avoid speculating on what, if anything, he understands.
So ... if he takes the federal pardon, and is forced to testify federally (I know, I know, just go with me a moment), can he still plead the fifth in federal court?
My understanding is no, but also since taking the pardon is admitting the guilt, wouldn't he also be not allowed to to plead the fifth in the state case?
Admitting the guilt to the federal crime, not the state one. They're distinct, even if we're talking about the same act.
I suppose at that point, the state prosecutor would just introduce the documentation of the federal case outcome.
Accepting a pardon does not require an admission of guilt.
He thinks "pleading the fifth" means taking the whole bottle of Vodka
A pardon by this particular president isn't something to brag about.
I’m not living in the US and have never seen this guy before. I’ve seen his photos a lot lately. I want to know what medical device he is wearing on his chest? Looks like some kind of CPAP or oxygen mask?
He had been in a bad car accident recently, that probably explains the brace.
He was the NYC Mayor in the late 90's, and when the Sep 11 attacks happened. Later, he ran for President, and talked so much about the attacks that people started referring to him as "Gi911ani".
Of course, even back then, he was extremely good friends with Donald Trump....
The headline makes it sound like that's a decision that was made specifically for this pardon. It is not. Presidential pardons have only ever applied to Federal charges, never to State charges.
This website has one of the most malicious pseudo cookie banners I have seen so far. I wonder why they are doing this at all, because it's illegal where sich an Option is required and useless in all other places
Sycophants, yes. Pawns, yes. Friends???
Slam!
off topic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_arising_from_the_September_11_attacks
Giuliani let the Ground Zero rescuers work without respirators.
He hasn't attended any of the funerals for those who died because of the poisoned air.
Is the quote from the article but the sourcing is poor.
Basically regardless of what Giuliani did first responders would have been working without respirators. There were simply not enough for everyone and not enough time to get more. It was an emergency after all.
It's not like he was preventing rescuers from using what equipment was available.
What he did do though was force the area to reopen well before the air was safe. This required first responders to continue working after the initial emergency. Meaning people were exposed due to lack of equipment unnecessarily.
Also by forcing the area around Ground Zero to reopen so early he endangered basically every person that entered the area. For absolutely no good reason.
Additionally there is evidence he was not insuring that first responders in the city were provided adequate equipment before 9/11.
So I'm trying to be specific about what he did that was so terrible. Rescuers were going to respond and there would never have been enough PPE.
But Giuliani rushed the re-opening, causing harm to cleanup crews, first responders, and the public. He also did not provide emergency services with requested equipment before the attack. If he had listened there still wouldn't have been enough PPE, but a lot less people would have been exposed.
The Ground Zero operations went on for months after the original attack.
They couldn't get respirators the first few days, but they could have had them in the first month.