China develops “plastic” from bamboo cellulose that can replicate or surpass the properties of many widely used plastics and biodegrades in 50 days
I hope this is true but I remain skeptical of the initial claims. PLA is supposedly biodegradable as well, however in practice, it only biodegrades under very specific circumstances that are tricky to sustain without putting a good amount of work and planning in.
Regardless of whether or not it truly biodegradable, switching from oil to a plant based plastic is a carbon sink.
I'd imagine it's also better than having microplastics in my balls. Bamboo polymers in the brain sounds less threatening.
Plus if it biodegrades in 300 years that's still way better than what we are doing
The claim is fifty days in soil, but I don’t know if that means any soil within standard temperature, moisture, and pH levels, or if they’d be allowed to publish that if it only works in the soil surrounding acid lakes or something.
Cellulosics are a very mature field and there's not a lot that is truly new in it. Regenerated cellulose is incredibly old technology and a material that biodegrades in 50 days is basically useless. Not even raw bamboo biodegrades that quickly. This is an incredibly sensationalist article and I am not responding sure what the purpose is. The biodegradable plastics space has a lot of cool things happening, and biodegradable cellulosics are a part of that, but this just seems like a fluff piece written about an interesting, but not groundbreaking, scientific discovery really only applicable for people working in the polymers industry.
It says 50 days in soil, I'm guessing it's more stable than that when kept as regular packaging. It probably relies on microorganisms and/or other creatures that can break down cellulose to be present, which in a warehouse shouldn't be present
Even 50 days is relatively fine if it's cheap enough to replace saran wrap for food products. Most perishables don't last that long anyways
Of course every new invention is probably overreporting its successes for funding, but these kinds of innovation is always one step towards a better future.
I am not disagreeing but i do want to point out that
biodegradable in 50 days
Does not seem entirely useless when i consider single use plastics. Imagine if festivals had cellulose cups?
This assumes that the cups can withstand storage and transport, and that they can withstand liquids being held in them. I have my doubts that an extremely biodegradable material could manage that. Further, I really doubt the 50 day number is accurate to begin with, which is why I mentioned that a piece of bamboo doesn't break down in 50 days in the soil.
Why not one time uses, such as for tableware for food on airplanes? Intuitively it seems like we waste a lot in the "one time use" category where it's also expensive and inconvenient to wash and reuse
AI slop article, they pump out 25 a day.
Say that to Nature, one of the world's most cited scientific journals by the Science Edition of the 2022 Journal Citation Reports (with an ascribed impact factor of 50.5)[1]
So how is this stuff different than the celluloid that they make pens and glasses out of? Because that stuff is pretty tough.
Also are you saying we want plastic that biodegades quicker? Like we want plastic we can compost faster than wood
Great! But this doesn’t mention cost. Another biopolymer doesn’t matter at all unless it is cheaper than petroleum based polymers. In the end high volume consumer products are extremely price sensitive.
The petrochemical industry has significant economies of scale, making it difficult to dethrone. Also, there are some shady political shenanigans to ensure its continued existence. Getting rid of oil is going to require some radical changes.
Plastics were a luxury good 100 years ago. How much is petroleum distillation subsidized currently? That contributes to the cheapness of plastic. China has demonstrated that doing things for the people's benefit is worth their time instead of focusing on endless profit.
If Chinese companies start using bamboo plastic for disposable packaging it'll make more of an impact than you repeating oil oligarch propaganda
I’m not a propagandist, I’m an engineer who designs consumer products. As an environmentalist I actively campaigned my last employer in support of bio plastic options. However in over 30 years I have never been able to specify a single part made from bio plastic due to either material properties and/or the cost of raw resin. Like I said, good for the Chinese. But in America corporate greed rules.
There's no propaganda in that post. Unless forced by consumer demand or the government companies will not switch to a more expensive packaging. They're about quarterly profits, that's it.
Additionally, there are some oil applications we don't have a replacement for, however we have replacements for pretty much all the largest polluters (energy, transport, and plastic).
China has demonstrated that doing things for the people's benefit is worth their time instead of focusing on endless profit.
Propaganda deepthroating level: all porn actresses are envious.
@Baguette@lemmy.blahaj.zone said:
- Cost analysis presented it at 2.3k usd per ton, with the cheapest plastic (HIPS) at 1.3k/t and the most expensive (PLA) at 2.6k/t. Though the cost analysis didn't show all the plastics it used for material comparison.
wait it's just another spin on cellophane (with some cellulose formate)
it's good that process uses less harmful reagents, but it's not new-new thing
Bamboo? You mean the stuff that grows well with less water and pesticides so people are all hooting and hollering, but people are razing forests to grow and requires enormous processing to extract the goodies?
https://www.euronews.com/green/2020/11/30/bamboo-eco-friendly-fabric-or-environmental-disaster
Don't forget, people are involved in this process, and that means only one thing: disappointment.
Jaysus, you just put everyone on Orphan crushing machine.
I had a friend who was working with a very exciting bioplastic that in the end was completely scrapped because it turned out the plastic made was carcinogenic or poison or something. I have hopes for something to come and replace plastic but we definitely need to make sure what we replace it with isn't just as awful is some new and terrible way.... Or just the same and terrible ways.
So it's just like all other plastic, then? What did they expect.
We don't need research to know that we need to use paper and glass..
50 days worries me.
I know my market will buy 12 tons and have them sit around for 6 months. Mid Atlantic Giant Foods actualy found a way to make paper bags that can't last from the store to my counter without ripping into pieces.
50 days submerged in soil
or 150 days in the corner of the warehouse in a dank-non climate controlled corner.
Someone won't like how it feels in their mouth to suck on and will go back to penises
And you thought planned obsolescence wasn't bad enough......
Can we harvest bamboo to extinction next?! Starting with my neighbor's yard...
You can try. That shit's amazingly resilient.
Bamboo grows like mould in a slumlords apartment block
Why does the bamboo in your neighbors yard upset you?
I guess you've never have neighbors with bamboo!
It has long since become a problem for every neighbor that borders their yard. I've been digging the runners our of my yard since we moved in 8 years ago, and I'm about ready to spend ~$10k on remediation (burying a wall that the roots can't penetrate).
It is not native and grows out of control where I live. It takes over acres too densely for anything else to grow.
Some grow through rhizomes and often people plant it without doing their homework now the whole neighborhood has bamboo and it'll push though pretty much anything in your garden. Even clumping varieties can cause soil issues or push fences
because it spreads insanely far, probably. like into their yard
China truly is revolutionizing the world.
I'd choose China over USA, any day.
50 days is borderline useless when you factor in logistics. At best you fundamentally can't have a standing inventory.
Still, a step in the right direction
It biodegrades in soil in 50 days. Don’t store it in damp, biologically active media and you should be good.
I’ve had a dried flower arrangement in my house for about a year. It’s fine. Slap that baby in the compost tumbler and it will be soil within a few weeks.
Slap that baby, set him free
So don't store liquid in it? Not viable for beverage containers.
And unless you are going to use a sturdier plastic to surround it (which actually is a very good model because it keeps the harder to recycle stuff out of homes)... tell me you never worked inventory without telling me you never worked inventory?
No, you're understanding this wrong. They don't mean it will degrade on the shelf or in transit, only in soil. If true, this is the shit.
Additionally, the bamboo plastic can be degraded in soil within 50 days or closed-loop recycled (where objects are recycled and used to remake similar products) whilst retaining 90% of its original strength, demonstrating its potential as a sustainable but high-performing alternative to traditional plastic materials, according to details released by researchers.
Except for literally anything dry or single use. Packaging for screws, toys, electronics, medical material and also actual items themselves like straws, single use plates/cups/forks, etc.
Completely useless amiright
I was looking at a crystal clear, water tight, biodegradable, algae-based plastic the other day. The problem is, well, that it is biodegradable. You can’t package food with it because it will grow mold and then lose its properties.
Possibly for situations where it stays dry it could be a great plastic, but that pretty much excludes all shipping and food use.
Yeah. I can't actually think of an application for plastic where this makes sense, but there probably is one.
But this really feels like a proof of concept paper that hit mainstream news. But those tend to actually have very useful applications in niche corners (that are only sometimes weapons...) so cool.
Not even for plastic cups like at fast food chains? Those are in constant demand and get thrown out instantly after use
Demand varies and there are a LOT of warehouses on the way from the cup factory to the starbucks. Cups can EASILY spend a month or three just sitting in a damp cardboard box at a distribution center. Which is "fine" because they have at least one or two more layers of outer packaging around the stack of venti iced coffee cups.
It’s not fruit.
You're right but because this is a politicized issue, you seem like you're on the wrong side and therefore are wrong and evil. There is a lot of good work being done on biodegradables but 50 days is way too short of a timespan. If you put a piece of bamboo in the ground it's not going to biodegrade in 50 days, for example. Most of the disposable plastic we use is on stuff that is wet, so I am incredibly skeptical about the utility of this.
I'd love to see a comparison with PHA, the only true bioplastic available for 3D printing right now (as far as I know). Sounds really promising!