I ditched Linux for Windows 11 for one week - and found 9 big problems
I ditched Linux for Windows 11 for one week - and found 9 big problems
www.zdnet.com
I ditched Linux for Windows 11 for one week - and found 9 big problems
Comments
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"Why do people willingly use Windows?"
Because they are brainwashed into thinking it's the easiest platform, and that any problems they encounter are because that's just how computers are.
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Sigh, please stop using that argument, it is an easy cop out, and you don't actually help your cause by analyzing the real issue.
The real reason why people willingly use Windows is multifaceted and can be boiled down to a few points.
- It is the defacto standard. If you are going to use a desktop/laptop computer you will probably use Windows, especially at work.
- Most users know Windows in some capacity, this means that companies have an easier time finding staff than if they used something else, it wouldn't be impossible but it would mean spending more time and money training the staff and causing them to be less productive for longer as they learn the system. This is slowly changing with the rise of web apps, chromebooks and Macs. But still, having IT support a fleet of Linux desktops/laptops when working in a non IT sector would be increadibly wasteful
- Software, like it or not, Windows has a huge amount of proprietary software dominance, organizations LOVE proprietary software and dislike FOSS for one reason. Liability. This means that they get a number to call, email to contact, a person to yell at, they can deflect complaints and seem like they are a strong decisive company by taking legal action against an external party, and not have the buck stop with themselves.
I am an IT technician, this is what I have seen in the corporate world.
By talking about "brainwashing" you remove most of the actual information that could help you figure out how Linux could be better suited for the masses, and to be frank, using a word like "brainwashing" makes the Linux community seem a bit unhinged/cultish.
Focus on facts, then you can use them to change the actual issue.
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You missed reason 0:
- It is the default. Almost all computers today come with Windows. If someone clearly unknowledgeavle were to ask the salespeople in any PC store, they'd say some variation of "just use Windows".
Microsoft managed to make sure "a PC" almost exclusively means "A computer [with Windows]".
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also in most cases it's simply the default.
Look if you've spent any time whatsoever interacting with clients, customers, whatever when it comes to development work for literally whatever be it software or web or mobile applications at the end of the day they all want the same thing. They want it to just work. Right out of the box, to simply work. The majority of people DO NOT want to customize their PC or online experience, they don't want to tinker, hell these days they don't even want to download an exe off a site - if it's not in some kind of app store, it ain't getting installed. They all want a thing to just work.
Windows, like it or not, provides that. They don't want to use Linux, they don't want to potentially have to open a terminal and type out some simple commands. Most of these people have never even opened a cmd prompt or powershell in windows in like....ever. A good chunk of people using windows don't even know terminals exist.
I use linux, I use different distros, and I don't blame anyone who refuses to make the transition even though they aren't exactly enjoying their windows experience. They deal with it. Let them complain. A lot of people simply don't have the time or even the interest to learn a new piece of tech and again I don't blame them.
Can Linux also "just work"? sure, it can potentially but lets not kid ourselves here and lets REALLY be honest with each other. It's not going to "just work" like Windows, for the vast majority of people, does.
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Most people have literally never heard of Linux.
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Also, there are not much cash to swing around to incite companies to use Linux, windows and all their bs 365 crap on the other hand ...
It's wild how just a guy showing up, for free, "explaining" all the benefits of some shitty soft or process gets everyone on board super easily.
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- "They use Windows because they are used to Windows" is not an argument but a cop out.
- "They know Windows better because they use Windows" is not an argument because... guess what... people can learn. That's how they got their (probably very basic) knowledge of Windows in the first place.
- Paid and externally supported Linux/Foss exists. Choosing Windows instead because that's somehow magically the only one with support available is just a recursion to #1.
If you want to talk facts however, start with money spend on lobbying, on pushing it on education early, on forcing people to buy their hardware with Windows pre-installed etc...
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Or because work requires us to
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That sounds more like forced than willing to me.
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No, its mostly because 99% of people dont build their own computers and because 99% of prebuilts/laptops come with Windows preinstalled. Thats literally the only reason. If all devices came with Linux preinstalled, most people would be too lazy to switch and buy a windows license. This would change the market share of Linux which would immediately cause companies to prioritize making their software run on linux. Its really just corporate inertia.
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It's the de facto standard for many reasons, none of them being individuals' choices. Microsoft paid and pushed for Windows to become the default OS on pretty much all OEM hardware, they lobbied super hard to push people into using Office, they gave massive discounts on licences for corporations, big and small companies.
It has nothing to do with individual choices, it created the problem you mentioned in your comment though. People just became complacent and ignorant because of that, not the other way around.
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True, that's why I said they were brainwashed
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The only real options for the average user are Mac or Windows. Linux just isn't as user friendly, and a lot of the customization and flexibility of Linux is actually a determinant for non technical people.
I'm a technical person and I can't stand Linux as a main driver. Love it for development and as a server, but it can be very janky for UI things.
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I used windows out of concern that my university may use an application unavailable on Linux (I'm an electrical engineering major) I shouldn't have been since even if there isn't, I could always use bottles/wine to get the .exe file.
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That's fair. I've noticed that Wine's support of non-game software can be hit or miss depending on what it is.
I'd say your case is more necessity than willingness.
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Because what's the alternative? Pay $1k+ for a disposable MacBook or suffer through making Linux work.
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#8 reawakened my nervousness about the lack of virus protection on Linux. With every milestone we celebrate it becomes more likely that malicious people target desktop Linux with their malware, and I don't think the "Linux is inherently secure" mentality helps. I hope clamav's on access scanner is fixed and improved so it becomes commonplace before there's some big newsworthy scandal.
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Granular permissioned access for apps from trusted supply chains is better than attempting deny lists based on signatures (AV).
I still use it, but I put way more effort into SLSA, securing containers, flatpaks, and limiting their blow back. From there its keeping up with CVEs in ways that do not create more or break functionality.
I will say A LOT of the Linux software ecosystem is was more secure than Window's default.
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Is there antivirus for Android? I mean there surely is, but Android does not really need it because it's built from scratch to give each app as little permissions as possible*. Desktop Linux is going in the same direction.
technically. This does not mean that Android is secure in terms of privacy.
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Is there antivirus for Android?
Yes there is a Google Play Protect. There is also a service that checks every single App on the Store separately.
Though the effectivity is debatable.
There are third party ones but I have not heard anything good about any of them. I am not sure they are legitimate
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The Linux desktop is not really going in the same direction as Android
Not that "antivirus" software any more or less useful. It is mostly snake oil.
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For sure. I recall installing an open source mahjong from the android google store when I bought my first ever android device about a decade ago. Instantly took over my tablet and kept throwing ads at me. And it got into the root and wouldn't go away when doing a reinstall. Fortunately it was a super cheap tablet that I only got to toy around with. But I have had no interest in ever getting another android device since then.
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I don't think a Linux anti virus program would be such a big security win. Phishing is the biggest security threat to most users, and no amount of software can prevent that.
Sure, downloading and running random shit is a concern, but people in that group are a bit of a lost cause. The best solution for that is to harden the OS, prevent running executables through the GUI, or from user folders (I think SELinux could do that), disable sudo on the user account, and only allow installing Flatpaks. The security of Flathub may not be perfect, but it's a smaller attack surface than the whole internet.
But even if you do that, an Indian call center scam is still going to manipulate your grandma into buying Amazon gift cards, so... It's a lost cause.
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... but people in that group are a bit of a lost cause.
touche. I don't think the existence of other threats is a reason to dismiss this one. And I don't think simply prohibiting running random executables is sufficient as it isn't 'most users' who are switching to Linux. The people likely to switch to Linux are also the people likely to want to run programs that aren't yet distributed in repos. I can imagine a scenario where the malware is hidden in a program hosted on a custom flatpak repo and requires permissions for normal operation that'd make flatseal ineffective for stopping the malware.
The ideal anti-virus in my mind would ignore programs installed from official repos and on access scan ones installed from anywhere else. It'd also keep track of critical vulnerabilities to give you a heads up about updating your system.
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Why are we shouting?
Anyway, don't waste your time with "antivirus" software. That is not how you secure a system.
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There is virus protection for Linux if you really want it (both free and paid).
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They're either targeting businesses (so obscene prices) or clamav, which is buggy
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Well yeah, you need to use Linux, the Linux way to make it secure.
If you are running VSCode as root after having logged into the DE as root and installing extensions willy-nilly, it won't matter that your RHEL has SELinux installed.
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Whoever put autoplaying video with sound on that website should be executed.
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The click bait headline was a clue.
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Me in an alternate timeline where Linux is proprietary and the defacto OS on the majority of computers:
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I'm sure there's a gazillion "I tried Linux for a week" articles, and I really like that they turned this one around.
But it has little substance.
He tells us how to add a user in Linux, but "with Windows 11, I pretty much had to sell my soul, do a backflip, promise to kneel at the foot of Microsoft, and learn to fly. OK, that's what it felt like." That's all. I'd have expected technical detail here. The other points aren't much better imho.
That said they're 100% correct on some points, and kinda correct on most others, e.g.: accidentally installing borderline malware through the Windows store is still Windows' fault, if indirectly.
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Yeah, kinda disappointing how superficial this article is
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I would love some more details as well about why they found it so difficult. I tried it myself just now without really knowing how to, and it was pretty easy. You either find the option by searching, or go to Settings -> Accounts -> Other Users -> Add account.
They do try getting you to add a Microsoft account first and you have to choose "I don't have this person's sign-in information" and "Add a user without a Microsoft account" which is the only other option than Cancel at that point to continue, then you set the username and password and you're done. To be clear, it would be better if they immediately gave you a clear option between local user and Microsoft account, but I would hardly call it selling your soul and whatnot.
But Microsoft for sure deserve most of the complaints they're getting and it's only getting worse.
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selling your soul and whatnot
Maybe they saw a Mandatory arbitration clause in the ToS when creating a MS account?
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Hello, my name is Jack Wallen, and I'm a glutton for punishment.
Bro really wants us to know hes been a bad boy 😭
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Here's my comments on it being a mostly normal user of Windows.
- Creating a local account was a pain - 100% true. I've done it. It's annoying and it's pain to remote into as well. There's a very small set of people who care about though.
- Google Passkeys will not work - I have it working. I don't remember it being too difficult and put the difficulty on my inability to execute it well. Saving passkeys are easy now.
- An email client that really frustrated me - what in the actual fuck. This doesn't belong here.
- Natural scrolling is so unnatural - I don't know what this is. It's either that I use it and it's natural, I don't use it because it wasn't turned on automatically, I used it and have change my norm to fit it
- Ads? Are you kidding me? - I've never noticed an ad. I don't use the start menu often, but it's not never. I also use Pro so they may not be there.
- Save As defaults to OneDrive? Why? - This is stupid that MS does this. I get why it works for them and I can even see the reasoning for having on by default for the average user, but ask first.
- Windows 11 uses so many resources - Yes.
- Virus and threat protection - another fail for MS. This should be a no brainer.
- Power and battery options - It does suck that it doesn't detect that it isn't a laptop. Pretty easy fix, but it would be better if it detected it
Three big problems if ads is becoming a thing. Three medium problems. One small, one you, and one what the fuck.
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I agree that an email program is not Microsoft’s problem. However, there was a real issue there.
His point was that he knew how to easily use SSH to get around a badly behaved Linux GUI program that was monopolizing or disabling the UI. He did not know how to accomplish that on Windows.
As a Linux user, this scores points for me as it does highlight the flexibility, power, and control that Linux offers. It is also true that you have more power at the Linux command-line (even in a world with PowerShell) which is what SSH gives you access to.
That said, this article came across too much like “Windows does not work exactly like Linux and does not have all the things I love about Linux”. It also came across like a Linux expert being frustrated with a system he does not know as well.
We have had years of these kinds of articles slamming Linux when Windows people expect it to work exactly like Windows does. Those articles are dumb. We do not need to start filling the world with Linux versions of the same.
All of the stuff on this arrival is small time, first time run noise. Use it for a month and give an honest assessment of the pros and cons. What saved you time once the system was set up? What took longer? What entirely new capabilities got added to your workflow? What limitations were you just not able to overcome?
The two that I think are more systemic are OneDrive and Ads. Those are going to continue to drag on you long after the initial setup issues have faded into the background.
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"I ditched Linux for Windows 11 for one day - here's why its not a desktop for people who don't need the features of linux"
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This feels like an article for non-tech Linux users who hate Windows and want their bias confirmed.
Ok, that's what it felt like
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To me, it felt like an obvious imitation of the myriad of articles that often have someone try Linux out, shortly, and then – often with obvious not understanding or just a surface level insight – proudly and definitively stating (or, at least, subtextually implying) that Linux was interesting but clearly not ready to be a Real™ operating system, etc.
But it seems most didn't read it as that, either.
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Ah, maybe! I don't have much experience with those kinds of article. If so, it probably nailed the tone such that I fell for it lmao
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Would love to see someone who spent 30 years on Windows spend a week on Linux...oh boy..
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We have seen that a lot. It often ends with an article a lot like this.
That said, many, maybe even most Linux users started Windows users first. So, not everyone writes a snarky article and goes back.
I think a Windows user that is adventurous enough to try Linux is more likely to be pragmatic and open minded about it. They can push through basic issues like the ones raised in this article to get to the real experience underneath. Many of them like what they find enough to stick around.
But we get our fair share Linux sucks articles that are not better than this one.
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I hate that there is an adverisement for another article every second sentence.
Please just let me read the article in peace and put related stuff below.
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No you have only 1 problem.
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I totally misread the title 😭
That is a very deceptive title. These are problems he noticed in Windows 11, not Linux.-
That's how I read it first time, I don't see how it's misleading. I think everyone knows that Windows isn't ready for the desktop.
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The Mailbird issue isn't really a Windows problem either.
But I'll totally give him the OneDrive bullshit.
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No, but he explained that the problem would have been easier to solve on Linux.
Not sure it would have been for a normal computer user though; I for one know how to SSH on my homeserver, but I don't know how to do that on my desktop Linux.
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It was installed in the Microsoft app store. It's definitely their problem.
All the packages in the default Debian repos are verified. Malware that covers the screen in ads and locks up the computer (intentionally) would never make it into the Linux repos.
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Only nine now? That's so much better than it used to be!
When I first tried Linux (Mandrake, many years ago), I could probably come up with 9 problems in just the first hour 😆
It's easy to find nine problems in Windows too, so this is pretty good for a free OS, IMO. It's great to see Linux gradually become more mainstream (aside from Android and servers)
Edit: I'm a dumbass lol
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The 9 problems were in Windows. He's going from Linux to Windows. Title is a bit easy to misread.
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Oops, that's what I get for being on my phone hours after I should have gone to sleep. I'm an idiot at those hours lol
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Skill issue
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Indeed. I assumed that was obvious when I wrote it, but thanks for confirming.
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Why do people use Opera? It's a proprietary Chrome fork owned by a Chinese company.
Perhaps for old time's sake. It used to be using its own engine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presto_(browser_engine)
Yep. People have a bad habit of sticking to their habits beyond the point of usefulness. Myself included.
There was a lot of BS advertising not long ago about it being a web browser "for gamers", whatever that means.
Gamers are easy to market to.
they still sponsors lots of youtubers and marketing now is on tab grouping (available on most browsers), theming (which is weaker than vivaldi, and maybe zen too) and ai (all browsers can open a web chat app). but they market to people who are using edge or chrome by default, and to them, it looks fancy.
??? It being Chinese has fuck all to do with Opera's issues.
And for anyone reading, just use Zen Browser, it is amazing.
China has a law that force a company to give to the government all his data including user data
US has NSLs. I expect China has the same. Better to avoid companies from such dangerously authoritarian regimes.
I bet you have some interesting opinions.
There is a good chance that this guy is a bit counter-cultural and does not want to use the obvious version of anything.
Look at the Windows mail client he tried to go with.
i enjoy being spyed on by china. and before the whataboutisim, i dont mind that the US or Canada spies on me.
You can also be spied on by me if you'd like to.
Just send your search queries to me.
For extra espionage, I'll even make sure to use non-privacy respecting search engines (like Google, Yandex, Baidu) and AI for your queries.