re: Fediverser Network - We should immediately turn off the automatic posts, and keep it off until the bidirectionality is implemented

I think it's a cool idea, and it could be the best way to help users on Reddit learn about Lemmy and migrate over.

I have some concerns though

What I like:

If you go to communities like !datahoarder@selfhosted.forum, you can see what I mean. Lemmy commenters are generally more helpful, more detailed, and get to the posts a lot faster than Reddit users.

If I understand correctly, once the network is implemented:

Reddit user signs up on Fediverser
Reddit user posts on a subreddit that has a Lemmy equivalent
Post is crossposted to Lemmy
When a Lemmy user replies to the post, that comment is reposted by a bot on Reddit

Users on the Reddit post will:

learn about Lemmy
see the good quality reply (if the reply is good, Reddit mods won't ban the bot)
get a direct link to a community/instance relevant to them

Users in the Lemmy community will

get more content from people that are already curious about Lemmy

That would be really cool!

HOWEVER

Right now, the network isn't fully implemented. Instead, in communities like !datahoarder@selfhosted.forum, there is a flood of ALL content that is posted in the respective subreddit.

This is bad because:

Lemmy users don't know that no human will see their replies, and the helpful Lemmy users are just talking to a wall. This will make them... less helpful in the future
Because ALL content is being mirrored, this spams out the actual Lemmy posts
Reddit users have no idea, and no control, over whether their posts are mirrored. I only noticed on the datahoarder community, but there are more sensitive subreddits where I would want control over where it is posted. I would also need a way to delete the content from Lemmy, and right now the users can't do that.

Proposed fixes

Don't mirror all content, only the stuff from Reddit users that sign up. There is already an incentive for signing up (more replies, better replies, better reach). If a user doesn't sign up, their post will not be mirrored, and they will not get the benefit.
If two communities WANT full mirroring, let them decide and have them contact directly (ex. from Modmail). Encourage them to talk to their communities before deciding
Any automated post NEEDS a note saying so
- Posts to Lemmy should have a link to the Reddit user, the Reddit post, and an "about" page for Fediverser
- Comments to Reddit should have a link to the Lemmy comment, an "about" page for Fediverser, and a link to some "what is lemmy"/"new to lemmy" article.
If it's not being implemented like the above, maybe change it up to consider the points about user control

As it is, reposting everything is damaging to Lemmy and potentially harmful to Reddit users that don't know their stuff is being mirrored.

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Reddit users have no idea, and no control, over whether their posts are mirrored.
I can't believe that I actually had to say this, but what these bot instances are doing is EXTREMELY ILLEGAL.
Reddit comments are COPYRIGHTED materials, and when reddit users sign up, they agree to a ToS that grants reddit essentially a permanent license to do with the contributed content as reddit pleases. However, anyone else mirroring these reddit comment would not have permission to do so, and theoretically reddit, or any reddit user whose comments are being mirrored, can start issuing DMCA takedowns against any instance that host these comments by federating with these bot instances.
I'm not a lawyer, but @rgullis@communick.news, instead of saying they are archivers or frontends that explicit do not host contents, you are ACTUALLY dumb enough to admit that you are illegally scraping, mirroring, and rehosting reddit's content for the explicit purpose of making a competitor and harming their commercial interest so you can't even claim fair use. You better pray that reddit's lawyers don't find out about your little projects, they'll find you through your domain registrar or your cloud host, and you, and any instance that federates with yours would be in a world of pain.
Any instance owner should defederate from these bot instances immediately.
- Has there ever been a case where a user has been able to legally enforce the copyright of internet comments?
  
  From what I understand, the copyright is exclusively Reddit's.
  
  Well, you give them the right to do whatever they want with your content, as is common with similar services and social media, but you retain the ownership of the content. I don't know of any services that take away your ownership and I am not even sure that's legally possible in an agreement like this. Don't quote me on the last part though.
  From their user agreement:
  You retain any ownership rights you have in Your Content, but you grant Reddit the following license to use that Content:
  When Your Content is created with or submitted to the Services, you grant us a worldwide, royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive, transferable, and sublicensable license to use, copy, modify, adapt, prepare derivative works of, distribute, store, perform, and display Your Content and any name, username, voice, or likeness provided in connection with Your Content in all media formats and channels now known or later developed anywhere in the world. This license includes the right for us to make Your Content available for syndication, broadcast, distribution, or publication by other companies, organizations, or individuals who partner with Reddit. You also agree that we may remove metadata associated with Your Content, and you irrevocably waive any claims and assertions of moral rights or attribution with respect to Your Content.
  I don't really understand the part I made bold, so if anyone could explain it (optimally with credible sources) that would be great :)
  
  I'm not sure but signing away any moral rights seems so dystopian.
  
  Which moral rights are you signing away?
  Copyright isn't a moral right imo. Ownership might be the closest to a moral right and you are keeping that one.
  
  No idea. It just sounds evil.

44 comments