Remote View

1y ago

What does an ideal world look like to you?

Instead of focusing too much on all of the things that are currently wrong, could you please help paint a picture of what a future utopian society could look like?

My vision is heavily inspired by Terence McKenna. I imagine a world as it might have existed during prehistoric times. Lush forests teeming with exotic wildlife, clean air, and crystal clear water. No highways full of billboards, no parking lots, no shopping malls, and no cars. Just safe grounds and paths for humans embedded deep within all of this nature.

At a birds-eye view, it may look as if humanity has completely abandoned technology and regressed back into its childhood. Yet if you were to look out through the eyes of one of these utopian people, you would see the most wonderful augmented reality display.

Information, communication, entertainment, education, global economies… almost everything has been de-materialized. Humanity’s ceaseless pursuit of technology has been mostly divorced from our physical environment and mother earth is bustling with life again.

The only technologies that remain in the real world are those that help all of us live happy and healthy lives (modern medicine, delicious food, solar power, etc) all the while the shared virtual reality in our eyes is limited only by our collective imaginations.

We are finally living in accord with nature without having to forsake our innate desire for knowledge and progress.

95 comments

Everyone acting in good faith all the time. Yeah, it’s impossible.
- I would assert that most problems are caused by ignorance, not malice.
- Doesn't even need to be that good. Start with what northern Europe has, eat the rich, keep improving.
  
  One of those things is not like the others. Northern Europe is not even that great.

Star Trek
- But which one? (Like I need to ask) Next Generation.
  BTW came to say ST

democracy with citizens having more power and having the ability to revoke a representative by vote if they turn out to be a dick
Socialism
no scarcity
equality
No discrimination
solarpunk
capitalism is abolished
high quality of life
needs of the population met
Complete automation of production, repetitive tasks and menial tasks so humans can enjoy life

All people guaranteed a baseline lifestyle. Housing, food, clean water, healthcare, electricity, internet. Everyone contributes to maintaining infrastructure in some way, would probably require 10-20 hours a week. Beyond that, people free to do what they want. Garden, make art, invent new things, whatever.

It is an egalitarian society where we all work for one another's benefit. I can really dream can't I. I like the idea of anarcho-communism in the style that was very much common in Native American societies prior to the racist/bigoted European settlers. This kind of society everyone was important and everyone played a key role in the success of the society. A leader acted more as a facilitator and less as an authority figure.

I'm deeply skeptical of any and all utopian ideas. They have this mysterious tendency to wander down paths to authoritarianism because we, as a species, are more defined by our ideas of who and what we are than by anything else in our existence.
When an idea becomes an ideal, people become willing to kill or die in attempts to bring that ideal to fruition, no matter how vain.
In fact, this is how I self-edit my own beliefs about the world and myself. "If the cards were all really on the table, would I be willing to proudly die in defense of this idea?" If the answer is yes, then I cling to that as an ideal that I strive toward.
All human lives matter equally.
It is important to lift up those who have less than I do.
Any small effort to alleviate the suffering of my fellow humans is meaningful.
There is always hope.
That is the utopia I choose to live in deliberately every day, and what I appreciate most is that it is resilient to the whims and chaos of this world that I can't control.

Income inequality would be lower in my ideal world. The income distribution should be more like the 50's. A 4 day work week, and eradication of this "central business district" idea. There can still be offices for some people, but offices can be more geographically dispersed, with different sectors in different areas so half the city isn't trying to get to one spot in the mornings, or leave that one spot in the evenings.
- I can't say that I agree with your vision of an ideal society, but it sounds pretty good if you want to keep capitalism and capitalists

A world in which everyone is able to freely pursue their interests and desires without constantly having to worry about their well-being or safety. A world untainted by incessant manipulation, greed, and narrow minded prejudice. A world with neigh unlimited access to education and information. Where ideas, beliefs, and scientific discovery can flow freely without political agendas or personal vendettas always getting in the way.
Oh, and no more mosquitoes, billionaires, or people that talk in the theatre. They get a special place in hell.
- We in Lithuania have a mosquito-free summer this year :)

To add to some that the others said: A world federation.
After the European Union eventually grew together to the European federation, many nations pushed to cooperate against worldwide problems. This eventually resulted in the continuous strengthening of the United Nations. Over time, nationality became more and more meaningless until eventually the point was reached that any of us only consider themselves part of the United Nations of earth. At last, humanity united.

Meditation, study, gardening, self improvement are paid jobs. We've given freedom to those who are able to use it in a responsible manner. Hard labor is a 4 to 5 hour gig that we take turns doing, not because we are forced to, but because we understand the necessity and value of the work. Work is not seen as something we must do to have a house and food, but it is seen as participating in our society.
Compassion, tolerance, and freedom are primal virtues.
Personally I love work, I love the feeling of charity, I love learning how to better myself.
- I still disagree with the capitalism though
  
  Sure. It's just, communism is not an answer. It's human nature that fucks up these systems. We need to address human nature

Realistically? Something a lot like what we currently have, but with everyone having access to prompt healthcare, living in comfort. A focus on community and cooperation being more dominant in the culture, rather than competition and comparison.

Our cities would be compact, walkable, jam-packed with quality transit, and nearly car-free. Cargo would be transported with cargo ebikes, barges along rivers and canals, local freight rail, and cargo trams. People would move by foot and bike and trams and metro and high-speed rail.
The surrounding countryside would be home to ecological, sustainable smallholder agriculture, preferably with plenty of technology for efficient precision agriculture. Instead of massive monocultures of corn, we'd have diverse polycultures of dozens of different crops, both annuals and perennials.
Nature would be abundant, protected, and rewilded. We would remove most roads into wild areas and replace with trains and velomobile trails, which would be much lower impact on wild habitats. Every city would have easy, rapid transit access to natural areas by rail, so anyone can go hiking or exploring or whatever they like.
Our economy would be centered around productivity, not rent-seeking and speculation. We would use policy to reduce barriers to entry to create highly competitive markets. We would heavily tax externalities like carbon emissions and fertilizer runoff and PFAS contamination.
We would tax people on what they take, not what they make. Income taxes? Nah, you did the labor; that value should belong to you. Carbon emissions? That materially harms others so you should pay tax on that. Hoarding valuable god-given land? You didn't make it, so you should pay taxes on the land you deprive from the rest of humanity.
Our democracy would be reformed with a much better voting system like mixed-member proportional representation (MMPR) or single transferrable vote (STV), so we could have healthy multiparty systems.
Our society would publicly invest more in research and development, open-source projects, infrastructure, and anything else that generates positive externalities. You rewilded 100 acres of native grassland? Society should pay you for your valuable labor.
The balance of power between labor and employers would be balanced. A citizen's dividend or universal basic income, subsidies on positive externalities (like rewilding), and the economic general growth spurred by elimination of rent-seeking would allow for an empowered working class that could capture its own productivity gains, demand better pay, and demand shorter hours. Much like how the professional class can demand good pay and good working conditions currently.
In short, the economy would be centered around Georgist principles, environment and agriculture around permaculture, and democracy around technocratic and representative democracy. A shared, sustainable prosperity for all.

You never set a time frame. So here's a far distant future vision.
Ideal? I think far, far greater scale.
Imagine a world where technology and science has reached its absolute zenith, where things we view as impossible miracles are a reality. Entire worlds appearing from nothingness, wholly formed and terraformed to perfection, in the blink of an eye, on a whim. The power to rearrange the stars of the sky like sand on the shores of an infinite sea.
Absolute immortality for all who desire it, unaging, with the ability to appear and become anything you desire - male or female, anthropomorphic or otherwise. Dysmorphia, sickness, hunger, disease, all forgotten concepts of a distant past.
The very fabric of space and time bends, and any child can travel at whim to the heart of a star without harm, walk effortlessly upon the surface of a neutron star, explore the vastness of distant galaxies with a single step.
Those with conflicting philosophies can craft their own worlds, experimenting with what they believe things should be like, and compare their findings.
A pipe dream utopia? The science is there in theory, though separated from us by countless eons of time. Sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic, as Arthur C Clarke once said. Utility fog, ship of theseus style immortality and more await, if we can come together as one.
- What a beautiful picture, thank you! You have a very nice way with words.
  
  Thanks! I like writing every now and then, and I've had this very image stuck in my head for a long while.

Where the billionaires pay their fair share in taxes
- There just aren't any billionaires.

Networked, autonomous local communities.

Mine consides with yours, except it's a bit more techy. We'd still need someone to grow food for everyone on the planet, and that's where robots come in... and for everything else that is just tedious or repetitive to do. We'd also need central coordination regarding things like solar panel control, or nuclear power plant control, so a central AI will most probably dominate on all devices.
There is no currency, we have an advanced socialist society. We don't have polititians, we have "shamans" (people that guide the rest and keep the social piece, as well as uphold the values of the society). These people are not chosen by elections, they're groomed from youngsters to be leaders and embedded with the values this society upholds the most. Of course, they're carefully screened and chosen, based on certain tests that all children have to take, and scored on that (compassion and other highly valued human traits that are considered weaknesses in today's society, leadership skills, etc.).

Pretty much just Australia if it perfected itself to its potential, equalised out a bit better and stopped trying to be a mini America. Maybe a few less spiders.

We are energy beings with no flesh and blood. We can take whatever form we desire. Food, water, and oxygen are not required, but still enjoyed if you want. We can create and destroy our own reality by just willing it so. We are not imprisoned by spacetime. We are completely free and immortal. You must be invited I to anothers reality. Once there you have no power to create or destroy in the host reality. You can leave the host reality at any time. You seek out benevolent host realities and can exist in your own simultaneously. We are highly intelligent, wise, and experience much wider and deeper emotions than humans. We have any sensor we desire, nothing is hidden from us, other than others' internal and external realities if not invited.
- I spend most of my time on the internet anyway, so I've always thought it would be kick ass if I could upload my conciousness to the net and become an immortal living meme.

Fully automated luxury communism. Basically a post-scarcity egalitarian society. Fueled by fusion power, if possible.
- Came here to post this too. Post-scarcity, nothing to go to war over, everyone's comfortable.

Seems like you want a solar punk society. That's pretty much what I would want too.

Empathy and kindness all over, no countries,borders or nations exist, just humans. People and corps no longer powered by greed as much as these days, and general thinking of how to keep growing and do better as a specie.

Everyone has easy access to everything they need.

Decentralized localization of every possible energy generation system (renewables but if we're dreaming here then the supposedly suppressed Zero Point / radiant / overunity energy systems). Post scarcity abundance levels of all essential items, but mainly food, again through the localized means of production with vertical farm towers if space is a constraint. Free travel to anywhere on the planet and beyond using suppressed anti gravity electrogravitic technology (you said I could dream). Free access to every form of media ever made and knowledge formerly sequestered behind paywalls or otherwise suppressed, and a free and open forum to discuss these things.
But most importantly a new way of thinking that is cooperation based instead of competition based, and a new economic system that renders the profit motive obsolete and money itself much less of a controlling factor in peoples lives (such as a resource based economy like The Venus Project)

No humans. Not even their skeletons... Even the history of humanity complete wiped out like they never existed.
- Eh. Somebody else is going to evolve intelligence then. And honestly being a wild animal sucks pretty hard too.
- Sign me the fuck up! Collectively, we really are a blight on Earth.

Robots.
I don't think humans have the capacity for utopia. We can cooperate, but even if we achieve a near-optimal performant system of any kind, we never achieve stasis. We have before changed things for what can only be collectively said to be for the hell of it (when in reality it was because someone individually benefitted) and any utopia we'd achieve wouldn't last long and then we would erroneously attribute mistake of that Utopia's fall to its general feasibility. Plus I fail to consider a society that can't last as one that is utopic.
So... We won't.
But robots will. Once we're gone and they're still around.
And I don't think that is a good thing for the robots either.

I lack the imagination for grandiose dreams. Instead all I ask is for everyone to be excellent to each other. I think the very nature of competitive survival goes fundamentally against that, so it’s never going to happen.

It looks like the bridge of the Enterprise from Star Trek: The Next Generation. I want Earth to be like that. Instead, though, we seem to be stuck in William Gibson's Neuromancer universe.

We are finally living in accord with nature without having to forsake our innate desire for knowledge and progress.
Everything changed when the fire nation attacked

My ideal world is always communism where everyone has a role and those roles only export is prosperity and happiness. Something like the Rajneesh movement. It is deeply flawed and will never work globally but its a nice thought.
If you would have asked people 100 years ago they would be saying what we are living in today is the utopia. So this is always going to be a moving goalpost.
- I'd take things a bit further than just communism. I'd imagine a world where farm and factory are all largely automated and publicly owned.
  Anyone who wants a role has one, but no one is punished for not. Housing and food are guaranteed to all, as are most small luxuries.
  Want to make the world a better place? Do it. Science and Tech would be fully funded. Want to sit around and just sort of live? Sure, you get UBI.
  The only work places not owned by the workers would be the ones owned by government. If it's an essential service, it's government owned and government operated. If it's for fun, then sure, let some people get together and work toward making something fun.
  Another change; copyright and patent law would be maxed at 14 years. That number has actually been shown to be when 97% of the profit is made on most copyrighted work. This one change would open up so much potential for public domain creativity.
  I'd allow for continuing trademark of character, if they were in continuing use. i.e. a sort of serialization exemption to the copyright limits. If the author keeps putting out new material, they get to keep a form of control over their works, but if they stop, then it's all public domain.
  I may have put a lot of thought into this over the years, and parts would still likely need to be adjusted during implementation.

My vision of an ideal world is a hard one to answer but does have a few key aspects to it.
Where getting sick or hurt doesn't financially ruin someone.
Where people can seek mental health care without destroying their lives.
Where homelessness is a thing of the past.
Where no one goes hungry.
Where seeking to improve yourself via higher education doesn't cost money.
Where school funding is based on needs rather than location.
Where people are judged by the value of their character rather than the color of their skin, who they love, or the money in their bank account.
My ideal world isn't some far off fantasy, my ideal world is something that we can achieve in our lifetimes if we try.
- I want to live in that world.

I'd like to see a world in which the manufacturer of a product is responsible for its entire life cycle. So many problems we have today stem from our disposable culture. If say you package your product in plastic, that plastic should eventually come back to you for reuse/recycling, or at least you should foot the bill for processing it. Everything is barcoded these days, so it shouldn't be impossible to sort it by manufacturer. Could be a killer app for AI?

Way less children

When subscribing to already outlined worlds, I’d think living in the Culture (Ian Banks) sounds quite desirable.
The culture is run by extremely competent AI space ships, the Minds, all scarcity problems are solved, and the Minds not only make sure that all humans have a good place to live, but also animals, each according to their needs and desires.

Totally ideal? Green energy robots automate all the stuff humans need (food, water, shelter, sanitation, etc.) so that no one has to work and people can do whatever they want!

Wall-E. I get to be the robot

Well, we could all move into a matrix-like universe where we're gods, I guess. Then all we'd need for civilisation is server farms and the infrastructure to maintain them.
More near-term, if I was dictator for a day I'd impose a wealth cap between at maybe 10 or 15 million CAD and a guaranteed income you can live a very basic but comfortable life on. I feel like that would solve most problems. This could be applied globally too (with some ramp-up time) if we're assuming world government. Climate change could be addressed with a carbon tax high enough to fund the offsetting of the pollution's social cost.
I'm a wonk and I could go on, but those are the biggest things.
- Dictatorship is never a good thing even if the dictator is benevolent because it removes the choice of the people of who they want to be represented by
  
  I needed a magical way to answer the question, though!
  I'd actually go further - dictatorships don't really exist, just steeply tapering autocracies. The dictator is at the top, but just like everyone else they spend their days avoiding being knocked down the pyramid, and they can't know and often don't care what people are doing a couple steps down. Meanwhile, the people who aren't right on top get absolutely fucked by whoever is a couple steps up from them, with the step in between acting as intermediaries.

Sadly, it's purely a dream. Humanity will reach extinction levels before any type of reorganization and rebuilding may occur. Only then can we hold hope that greater minds recognize that the greater good for all equals a better community and society.
I know you don't want me to look backward....however, IMO: humanity missed the boat at the end of WWII. If humans couldn't work together for a collective betterment for everyone, it'll never happen without a complete reset of the human species.
- I think complete extinction is pretty unlikely, I expect that small enclaves will continue to exist. And if there are still humans in 100 years there will still be humans in 10,000 years.

Iain M. Banks' Culture

I don't dream much but I would like to live in a world where all the information published is free to modify and share (i.e. all the research data, hardware assembly instructions, firmware, microcode, software, books is copyleft). Intellectual property exists only as share-alike materials, you must publish the internals alongside with the end-user product (e.g. you can buy a CD, or download a content online). All the software is open-source, copyleft. Paywalls can only exist to cover infrastructure costs, you can still copy the content that is behind the paywall as long as you include the original author. This would break all the walled gardens of information.
Also, no dictatorships.

Syd Mead and other sci fi concept artists deserve their own lemmy community.. tons of visuals for this idea out there

One where the rich pay more tax then they currently do now. Also slap a carbon tax on these fuckers and use the cash to fund climate mitigation / adaptation.

My ideal world is one where the population of humanity exceeds 10trillion, but the population of earth is <100,000 permanent residents with yearly visitation from tourism etc exceeds 100million thanks to the series of space elevators that have been built. The majority of humanity are living in space at various Lagrange points in O'Neill cylinders and at least a quarter of humanity are in living in generation ships traveling to distant stars many that are >10pc away.
The Asteroid Belt has been mostly mined out though that isn't much of a problem as fission/fusion generation supplementing the solar dyson ring has transformed us firmly into a type 1 civilization.
- I like all this and I'll add that for those who choose to participate, there is more than enough. For those who opt out, there is no lack.
  But numbing oneself isn't a passtime.
  And all are treated with respect and freedom for all is a primary principle.
  In essence: this and the other post that includes no scarcity and the end of capitalism.

A world where all humans are autistic.
It wouldn't solve everything, but at least there wouldn't be room for chronic reification, useless charismatic narcissists, Cartesian dualism, etc to become big issues like they are in our world.
- Speaking as someone with autism you are wrong and misinformed
  Autism doesn't give everyone the same static personality
  We are just like you, we just process information differently to you and there's nothing wrong with that
  
  I'm autistic too.
  My point isn't that autistic people have a single, utopian personality, but that we're generally less susceptible to certain social/psychological phenomena that tend to make societies shittier.

UBI that is linked to the average income. So the more people work, the more everyone gets every month and vice versa. Make it so jobs are not necessary but available to better help humanity or whatever since machines will be able to provide most if not all the labor.

95 comments