(CW:racism, ableism) From the blajah modlog
I'm trans and I really don't want to federated with these people if their mods are defending the -tard suffix and they aren't getting de-modded and banned. I also don't want to be federated with them if they ban critiquing western chauvinism.
Someone who is an admin and with more of a level head than me RN please talk to their admins about it.
Their reason for removing your post was really "imagine being this braindead?"
They're certainly not encouraging us to act in good faith.
In the image that's nakoichi whose comments were deleted.
How do even respond in good faith? I've tried in my other comment in this thread, but it's a position that's to the right of the current US Secretary Of State, Antony Blinken. Even Blinken acknowledged the history of communist movements in the third world.
"The Soviet Union was supportive of the freedom forces in South Africa, and of course unfortunately, more than unfortunately, the United States was much too sympathetic to the apartheid regime, so that history also doesn’t get erased, you know, overnight, it's a process," Blinken said.
That's a
from me.Also, I have a family member with an intellectual disability, so it sticks in my craw when someone tries to defend it as innocent. It's fine if someone throws it out and then gets corrected (think of the Chapos, they quit using it after all), since for a long time it was "acceptable." But to try and defend yourself after correction....
Not just people with intellectual disabilities either, plenty of nuerospicy people and people with mental illnesses are also called the R slur.
Given how many trans people are autistic(as am I) they really should know better.
Yeah it's really fucked up. I love the mod, after they drop it, is like "(I am a vocal socialist and very far left)." WHERES YOUR SENSE OF HUMANITY TOWARDS THOSE WHO ARE DISABLED/NEUROATYPICAL MFER. Really enrages me. Like, the idea that you shouldn't apologize and do better about this, that's fascist thinking rather than leftist.
nuerospicy people
Oh that's a good term. I like that
Yeahhh I'm generally pro-federation but going so far as to not only use ableist language but to remove criticism of it is a big yikes. I think blahaj's admin and our admins are trying to work together and make it work, but 196's mods are actively opposed and trying to burn the bridge. Blahaj was there before and accepted a 196 lifeboat, possibly without knowing too much about them.
I'm still in favor of federation but if we're expected to tone it down then we need it to go both ways. Otherwise we're not losing much.
"Hexbear is like the Donald" - an instance blocking comments that are critical of their bigoted content
It really just boils down to "this instance makes me uncomfortable, so it is exactly like this other thing that makes me uncomfortable."
They really just live in a world of empty reaction to things, no analysis.
The weirdest part about people calling us fascists is that a core component of fascism is anti-communism
Calling tankies fash is right out of the Nazi playbook and just comes across as the same dumb shit as right-wingers saying "Antifa are the real fascists!"
Tankies are bad / Woke are bad
Antifa are fascists / Communists are fascists
Both groups of liberals use exactly the same tactics of thought-terminating cliches when attacking leftwards. The conservative liberals do it to the democrat liberals and they then do it to us.
Liberals and their political analysis not extending past the point of crafting similes, name a more iconic duo. I'll wait.
Honestly, so much lib bullshit is just "Donald Trump is like Voldemort and Hillary Clinton is like Hermione..." and then they list what they like/dislike about those characters in a comparative fashion and that's all the analysis they can muster.
Or they say shit like Putin is like Hitler because Hitler Lebensraum and Putin also expanded Russia via imperialism. Plus here's a picture of Putin with a Hitler moustache to make my argument more compelling.
As if there aren't countless examples of countries engaging in imperialism and expansionism and as if that isn't low-key Nazi apologism to reduce the primary characteristic of Nazi Germany to just "expansionism" at the expense of ignoring all the other, far more egregious, things that characterised Nazi Germany.
That's all I have to say for that second comment being removed. These people think leaders like Nelson Mandela are "tankies". Like even most libs can recognise why people in Africa have aligned with communists. Holy hell, even the current US Secretary Of State, Antony Blinken, can recognise that history.
The African National Congress party, which has governed South Africa since white minority rule ended in 1994, had strong ties to the former Soviet Union, which trained and supported anti-apartheid activists during the Cold War. Nelson Mandela, South Africa's anti-apartheid hero, who died in 2013 and was a global icon, was regarded with suspicion by Washington during the Cold War and was even on the U.S. terrorism watch list in that era.
"The Soviet Union was supportive of the freedom forces in South Africa, and of course unfortunately, more than unfortunately, the United States was much too sympathetic to the apartheid regime, so that history also doesn’t get erased, you know, overnight, it's a process," Blinken said.
Imagine being to the right of Antony Blinken and the journalists at Reuters.
Can't wait for some liberal to say that Mandela made the wrong decision and should have aligned with the US and NATO during apartheid. Or that Mandela was wrong to look up to Fidel, Mao and Che. I'll just leave you with some quotes from Mandela:
"I read works by and about Che Guevara, Mao Tse-tung, Fidel Castro. In Edgar Snow’s brilliant Red Star Over China I saw that it was Mao’s determination and non-traditional thinking that had led him to victory."
“The revolution in China was a masterpiece, a real masterpiece. If you read how they fought that revolution, you believe in the impossible. It’s just miraculous.”
"From its earliest days, the Cuban Revolution has also been a source of inspiration to all freedom-loving people. We admire the sacrifices of the Cuban people in maintaining their independence and sovereignty in the face of the vicious imperialist-orchestrated campaign to destroy the impressive gain made in the Cuban Revolution."
"Within that international support for our struggle the Soviet Union and other socialist countries stood out. The governments and peoples of the socialist bloc gave material, moral and political support to our struggle in a manner and on a scale that we will never be able to repay."
Also thanks to @Nakoichi@hexbear.net for being so cool. Always has our backs
@Nakoichi@hexbear.net is one of the coolest people I've encountered here. Really good comrade and very sharp.
"But was he a person of NATO? Thought so tankie." - Blahaj
Nelson Mandela was a communist. Was the final recipient of the Lenin Peace Prize from the Soviet Union. And (re)wrote a book titled "How to be a Good Communist" while in prison where the first lines of the book reads:
A Communist is a member of the Communist Party who understands and accepts the theory and practice of Marxism-Leninism as explained by Marx, Engels, Lenin and Stalin , and who subjects himself to the discipline of the Party.
His remarks on receiving the Lenin Peace Prize after finally getting out of prison are here: http://www.mandela.gov.za/mandela_speeches/2002/021028_lenin.htm
I think this part is relevant:
As we remember the support from the Soviet Union and the socialist states, it is fitting that we also pay tribute to our historic partnership with the South African Communist Party.
We remember how South African communists came to the material support of the ANC at a time when the police were raiding our offices almost on a daily basis, depleting us of our resources to pay our full-time officials. We can never forget those concrete acts of solidarity.
The SACP has been trustworthy and dependable allies over decades as part of our movement in all its formations. Our relationship with the Soviet Union and the socialist world had much to do with their presence in our ranks.
Of course, liberals leave all of this out when praising Mandela.
The list of people whose socialist, anarchist, and communist politics have been written out of history is enormous. One that strikes me has always been Helen Keller. She was a noted and popular speaker in the early 20th century, but when she began speaking authoritatively about leftist struggle she was blacklisted from media and the story that gets told in schools - a story mostly about the teacher she worked with to develop speech and communication methods suitable for her disabilities - began to be shaped.
Recommended reading:
Why I became an IWW by Helen Keller. (Socialism For All narration with commentary here)
This is a short read and note that this was in the period when the IWW was dominated by Marxists/communists and prior to the shift where the IWW became dominated by anarchists.
Another favorite of mine is Chef Boyardee receiving the Order of Lenin award.
Another favorite of mine is Chef Boyardee receiving the Order of Lenin award.
i think that might be early wiki shitposting bro lol
edit nvm grandson says it's true https://in.linkedin.com/posts/joarundel_gorbachev-activity-6970594594656772096-om_p?trk=public_profile_like_view
Everyone I see, I tell them Nako, he is doing the just work if there is just work, he is doing it. He is a fine fella if I ever seen one.
Liberals don't even know that Mandela was released from prison and lived until 2013. They all think he died while incarcerated decades ago, hence the "Mandela effect." It's a real self-own that they decided to put a label on their shitty understanding of history.
yeah that fucking tracks for
enjoyersQuick, someone criticize (the thing that vaush is that needs a cw) in 196 and see what happens
Banning comments critical of ableism is way beyond anything that a hexbear has ever done. This is absolutely damning stuff.
This isn't a random user or something. It's an admin a mod over there.
It's a good illustration about differing values - hexbear takes bigotry very seriously while most online communities let it slide. And then other communities look at how unapologetically serious and mean we are about politics and decide we're irredeemable. Total values disconnect.
They are kinder to systems than they are to individuals
mod, not admin
Because deep down they see the groups they want people to not be bigoted against as they’re lessers. The difference is where the reactionaries see them as to subjugated the libs want to speak for the poor unfortunate souls so they can feel good about themselves.
Not even deep down. It's only skin deep. Only takes a scratch.
Another interesting snippet of the modlog. They're an "anarchist".
I try to be polite when I'm on Hexbear, because I know there are a few anarchist comrades around.
But this particular type of western "anarchist" is my absolute least favourite type of lib. Ignorant, smug, drunk on the tiniest bit of power they can get, projecting their own faults and character flaws onto the rest of humanity. Assuming everyone else is even more vile and shallow than they are. Absolute scumbags.
As a former anarchist, this kind of 'anarchist' would have pissed me off when I was one myself, so don't worry.
It's the anarchist equiv of people who think they're leftists becase they voted for Obama
As an anarchist (specifically an anarcho communist), there are a lot of liberals who wear the label of anarchist but have fuck all idea what it means beyond some idea of edgy rebellion.
This isn't a new thing that's come about with the internet, gestures wildly at The Sex Pistols. But I feel that it has become more numerous in recent years.
On the plus side in all my years organising, the only times I've run into anyone IRL that acts like that, they've not been the sorts to directly interfere with how an org is run and thus don't do much to bog down movements in their crusade against socialists.
There was one that stood up during a BLM protest to make a speech that was a rattling tirade about "tankies", and I think that gives a cross section on these types.
Anarcho-NATO-Bidenism lol
Most likely an anarcho-bidenist
I hate how misused the term anarchism has become. The media has convinced people it just means "no rules" when it's really... Not that.
Anarchism is when you vote Biden, but wish you could vote Green.
Anti-oppression policy/anti-oppressive speech is a safeword for most anarchists, if anyone wants to take up the charge and drive critical consciousness in that mod team.
The mod team on blahaj are absolutely atrocious. Other than Ada, who seems to actually engage in good faith and tries to foster at least some level understanding, their mods respond to our mods wanting to talk by leaking DMs and general bad-faith attitude. When Ada requested that direct DMs from our mods not be shared, there was some shitty scribbling and effective refusal to comply, and now also this modlog?
Everyone's a lib, that's fine. But the blahaj mods are just actively playing troublemaker at this point and don't seem interested in any kind of actual good faith interaction. They never have seemed it.
I disagree. The admin is part of the problem as well. They're just playing some good cop bad cop routine, with her being the good cop. If she really cared, those mods would be long gone. That's her prerogative as admin. Like, she could just completely shut down the Lemmy site and focus more on the Blahaj Mastodon, which is the actual flagship Blahaj website.
Beat me to it. Ada really just seems to be there to make it seem like they can be talked to, negotiated with, but Ada never does anything but wring their hands and complain about working things out being "too hard."
What do you call someone who sits down at a table full of fascists?
A fascist.
I'm being hyperbolic of course, but the same sentiment still applies. They have the power to get rid of the problem mods, but choose not to, because having those mods be the "bad guy" means they can do what Ada secretly wishes they could get away with.
good cop bad cop routine
So everyone's a bastard like all cops?
I think it's mostly 196 mods and specifically Moss
Maybe so, who knows about the modlog, but either way their actions not being held to account by admins, even after blatantly defying their requests, isn't great.
Is this engaging in good faith?
I’m naive to the complexities of tankies and their beliefs, and was unwilling to defederate over political issues that I am only familiar with at a surface level. Doubly so, given that no queer folk were highlighting them as a source of ongoing queerphobia
However, I did a deep dive in to some of the content on lemmygrad, and it crossed the line to more than political differences. (Which to be fair is what people had been telling me)
The "tankie" cliche is a powerful information weapon. It preps people to dismiss everything they encounter from mls, at minimum, but likely a lot of other left politics gets caught in the cross fire. I really wonder how the anti-tankie crowd encounters revolutionary Anarchism. Many of them seem extremely hostile to any form of revolution and any use of force to achieve political goals, and to the admittedly very limited degree I've talked to them seem to think anarchism is when you let everyone do whatever they want, without a lot of theory beyond that. It seems, and I hope this is just my limited experience with them, that their politics begins and ends at "you cannot force anyone to do anything for any reason".
You hate r-word because you think it's ableist.
I hate r-word because it reminds me of imageboard culture, and also think it's ableist.
We're mostly the same.
(disclaimer, I'm not trans) yeah, my general attitude on blahaj at this point is "fuck 'em." I understand that there's a desire to bolster and grow the trans space on lemmy, but these people suck, and frankly I feel like the cool ones that we'd want community with would just make accounts here anyway if the two were de-federated.
I understand also that most of the problem originates specifically from their 196 community, but if the broader blahaj instance chooses to allow them to act like this unchecked, then there's no reason for hexbear to go out of our way to appeal to their instance.
Vaushites are basically all scratched liberals, its concerning that theyre allowed in the space.
I'm trans, and I completely agree that those people suck. I'm not sorry that they defederated us, and I honestly have no idea why you guys are trying so hard to make it work. Even when the admins claim that they're trying to smooth things over, they're still downright hostile to hexbear.
Appeasing these people will not work.
Edit: this is the justification for defederating us. Absolute dogshit. Just a random claim that we were saying horrible things:
This is a good example for why we need more tea and less "we're working with their admins". Obviously their admins don't care.
I wonder how much blajah users are even aware of this behavior.
Hexbear is like 4chan because Hexbear is mean to people. Blahaj is not like 4chan despite using 4chan suffixes.
Let's just say that 196 is a serious point of contention in what should otherwise be a good relationship with blahaj. Our brave admins are working on it.
Isn't this instance neoliberal? Why are we federated with these fucks in the first place
This particular mod previously ran 196 and now runs it on blajah iirc, I think the rest of the instance is better although I'm not sure by how much.
196 users when someone says they should direct their energy towards very real fascists instead of an imagined "tankie" threat: 🤯
Wait, so this loser mod was a Reddit mod? Jesus Christ.
I think they have a cool trans community, supposedly?
We need them to join the
I have no idea. They defederated from us pretty quickly. The 196 mod bans anyone who posts anything further left than Biden. The admin is a real piece of work as well.
seconded
I'm also salty because they deleted my explanation of how middle and large workplaces in the DPRK work (dual control, women's league, etc) as "tankie shit"
For those unfamiliar, Google "taean work system"
This whole federation experiment has been frustrating.
It's surreal seeing how furious people get when you try to educate them on the DPRK, even basic facts about them, or just like, photos of regular houses there make these people absolutely lose their minds.
Apparently the DPRK has concocted this whole fake system to trick gullible westerners, a system with complexity and history rivaling any other in the world, but their real system is just "Cartoon villain Kim Jong Un orders everyone around and they do it even though they all secretly hate him and need westerners to save them."
Just pisses me off about how much effort and patience needs to go into teaching people basic facts about a country, and yet they'll believe "Kim Jong Un tells the people he rides around on an invisible unicorn" and they'll just never question how racist and dehumanising it is to assume all people of the DPRK are like mindless children, believing everything they're told.
Yeah at that point we should pull the trigger first that is unexcusable behavior.
Hexbear is like 4chan because they do some trolling but blah isn't despite literally sharing the same values as 4chan reactionaries
It's kinda wild the things they'll make up or twist about Hexbear while allowing this sort of thing on their own instance. I'm becoming more in favor of defederation by the day. Our admins and mods worked swiftly to fix the issues we were causing. I've seen ableist and transphobic things coming from that instance and the most they get is a removed comment. Never bans.
If we do defed I think it's important to state that it's because of the bigotry.
Mind you that will probably just get the "Oh? The RED FASH are concerned about bigotry when they support [insert thing we don't support here]. Aww I feel so bad! Anyway..."
Federating with pedophiles and white nationalists hasn't really worked out great for us
Shocker.
Honestly I don't know why we are still federated with lemm.ee either.
When it comes to lemmy.ml and lemm.ee, I see a good mix of fellow leftists, open-minded folks, and then of course the liberal smuglords and chuds. However, the important thing to note is that all of those users are completely atomized individuals, and I think that's best to address them on an individual basis. The lemmy.ml leadership seems very supportive of our role there, and the lemm.ee leadership seems sufficiently open-minded despite what kinda looked like some pretty heated discussion.
I think we started with the false assumption that it was the cripsy left-liberals who migrated to lemmy while the pedo dregs remained on reddit
Instead its become blatantly obvious that the opposite is true
I suspect that one won't last either, but I'm happy to talk with the nice people over there until they eventually find a reason to defed or thr anti-communist trolls get their way.
Blajah seemed like a lot of drama and, maybe it’s just me but I saw less open-minded people than any other instance. Idk, from what I’ve seen people there are more fervently anticommunist than any other community?
Eventually Id just want to stick with lemmygrad and lemmy.ml and maybe one other instance
If you look at Blahaj's stats, you'll see that 80%+ of their activity is from c/196, which is an explicitly anti-communist shitposting community.
There are a ton of little bitty instances that never hurt us and we should stay with. Like the ttrpg one. I hope someday it grows and I can lfg there. I wanna try it :<
Really the only instances I've ever really seen trouble from are the two from the announcement post.
True, just getting tired of lemm.ee
Lmao fuck that mod and fuck whatever posts those comments were responding to