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elbowmacaroni @beehaw.org

Mastodon thinks Lemmy’s privacy stinks. What say you?

Federated services have always had privacy issues but I expected Lemmy would have the fewest, but it's visibly worse for privacy than even Reddit.

  • Deleted comments remain on the server but hidden to non-admins, the username remains visible
  • Deleted account usernames remain visible too
  • Anything remains visible on federated servers!
  • When you delete your account, media does not get deleted on any server

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413 comments

  • I think an option for full data deletion would be nice for those who want it, otherwise people should also expect others recording their data, which can be published later on.

    • Parts of it may actually be required under EU law. GDPR requires that anyone holding data on EU citizens comply with certain things, including a request to delete certain kinds of data. The EU has shown themselves willing to go after sizeable corporations for violations; most Lemmy instance operators are much smaller. This should probably be addressed before people find themselves on the wrong end of lawsuits.

      • Thing is, Lemmy is easily compliant with the EU's laws on this, because the laws state that the EU citizen merely needs to request the data be deleted. It says nothing about them having direct access to the lever to do it.

        A basic Python script can be used purge the database after a written request and everything's kosher.

        I don't understand why posts are held in reserve, rather than outright deleted. That's a design decision that doesn't totally make sense to me. I can see holding on to it for a period of time - 24 hours, 7 days, 30 days, what have you - so that users can undelete things, but just hiding it from end users and calling it deleted seems pointless to me.

        It's not like anyone is trying to sell it to 3rd parties for model training. And while I could see a use case in academic research, the delete button seems like an implied revocation of a license to show or distribute the content, at least in the absence of a proper ToS.

        And it just makes more noise for admins and mods.

      • I don't think GDPR necessarily applies here, but I am not a lawyer. Quoting https://gdpr.eu/companies-outside-of-europe/:

        Article 3.1 states that the GDPR applies to organizations that are based in the EU even if the data are being stored or used outside of the EU. Article 3.2 goes even further and applies the law to organizations that are not in the EU if two conditions are met: the organization offers goods or services to people in the EU, or the organization monitors their online behavior. (Article 3.3 refers to more unusual scenarios, such as in EU embassies.)

        I'm not sure just what the definition of an organization is, so perhaps any server hosted within the EU is covered by the GDPR, but for servers outside of the EU that don't have ads (which seems like all servers currently), I don't think this would count. The example on the linked site about "goods and services" includes stuff like looking for ads tailored at European countries, so I suspect that simply serving traffic from Europe isn't enough.

        The website also mentions the GDPR applies to "professional or commercial activity". There's also apparently an exception for under 250 employees. I don't even know how that works when something is entirely managed by volunteers like this currently is.

        At any rate, I suspect we're a long way off from having to worry about the GDPR.

        • The GDPR itself doesn't use the term organisation, it refers to data controllers and data processors.

          A “data controller” refers to a person, company, or other body which decides the purposes and methods of processing personal data.

          A “data processor” refers to a person, company, or other body which processes personal data on behalf of a data controller.

          As someone from within the EU working in data the fediverse is absolutely not a long way off having to consider this, GDPR impacts even the smallest businesses or voluntary groups - it's just how we handle data.

          To make it easier to grasp GDPR is about your rights over your data, those don't change depending on who is processing it, nor does the processors obligation, however what would be considered appropriate safeguards would scale with the size and intent of your organisation - it would be silly for my local shop to have a data protection officer.

          I suppose the question would become who is the controller, is it the person who provides the software or the person who provides the servers? Typically it's the servers.

        • Gdpr applies to servers within the EU, or for servers with EU clients. You can demand that they delete and stop transmitting data.

          But you accept to transmit data all over the world, in the end that data could end up somewhere outside of the EU without any direct EU customers. Then all bounds are gone.

          -
          Do worry about GDPR in conforming to deletion requests, but only your own data, not anything you transmitted.

      • GDPR likely doesn't apply to public facing forums in the way you're thinking, if you post actual personal data (which has a strict definition) yes it's murkier, but in general just posting on a public facing forum is extremely unlikely to qualify under right to be forgotten under GDPR.

        Notably, GDPR is extremely unclear about this specific circumstance, and will likely fall to practicality. The user can make requests for their data to be deleted, those should in general be followed no matter who's server it's on, but they have to be given to each server by the user. Following the deletion requests is generally advisable, but again, it's highly unlikely GDPR applies here. Feel free to get a GDPR lawyer to actually weigh in though.

413 comments