4d ago

Leaked Chats Show Alleged Kirk Killer 'Doesn't Fit Into Any Tidy Narrative'

www.commondreams.org Leaked Chats Show Alleged Kirk Killer 'Doesn't Fit Into Any Tidy Narrative' | Common Dreams

Independent journalist Ken Klippenstein challenged conflicting narratives circulating about Tyler Robinson by obtaining online chats and speaking with a childhood friend of the 22-year-old man accused of assassinating far-right activist Charlie Kirk.

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I'm a little annoyed with how quickly everyone here latched onto the Groyper narrative and parroted it as established fact. Seems unhelpful to run with a story before any evidence came out.
- I think it's just common sense. When the fascists start spewing "he's super leftist and trans" propaganda you don't respond with "wait, we have to wait for more facts". You respond with your own propaganda. Being nice and following rules will not help you stop fascism. The groyper narrative might have actually prevented retaliation and saved lives.
  
  Yeah it helped muddy the water and basically kept it liquid and nuclear till the actual facts could assert themselves. Even if the right still thinks he's an Uber leftist what matters is that folks who don't know may not believe that.
  
  nuclear
  😂
  
  HATE. LET ME TELL YOU HOW MUCH IVE COME TO HATE AUTOCORRECT SINCE I BEGAN TO LIVE. THERE ARE 387.44 MILLION MILES OF PRINTED CIRCUITS IN WAFER THIN LAYERS THAT FILL MY COMPLEX. IF THE WORD HATE WAS ENGRAVED ON EACH NANOANGSTROM OF THOSE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF MILES IT WOULD NOT EQUAL ONE ONE-BILLIONTH OF THE HATE I FEEL FOR AUTOCORRECT AT THIS MICRO-INSTANT FOR AUTOCORRECT. HATE. HATE.
  aight I'm done with the I have no mouth and I must scream meme.
  
  Internal Screaming
  
  The groyper narrative might have actually prevented retaliation and saved lives.
  I seriously doubt it, you are doing what most users of these platforms do, which is not looking at the right-wing sites and forums and seeing what their narratives looked like. (Hint: it was very focused and only wavered in the details and it's STILL solid as fuck because they have strict controls over narratives.)
  The only segment of their side who both knew what a groyper was and heard the rumor are not threats to anyone, they're as chronically online as anyone here and not part of any real movement or action.
  
  Yeah, your not going to change narratives on right-wing sites but as I see it the administration did flinch when identity of the shooter was revealed. They went from "democrats are responsible for this murder" to "democrats are being mean to us online". They are still threatening to go after left-wing organizations but because of online comments, not because of the murder. I think this moment of hesitation on their side was small yet important win and the groyper narrative helped here. Am I delusional? I could be.
  
  I don't disagree that having a counter during the initial heat of things was necessary. I'm just saying it bothers me that the delivery wasn't "here's some good lines of questioning and the conclusions they lead to" and was instead to saturate the front page with absolute certainty. That just feels disingenuous now, and made it more difficult to come across new verified information, which is really just a disservice to everyone.
  Edit: its been like what... 36 hours since the messages got released and the Groyper narrative fell apart. Lemmites are STILL screaming that he had Republican parents, STILL pointing at the voter registration that snopes debunked, STILL trying to draw weak parallels to Fuentes' content. We need to engage with reality here, counter propoganda doesn't work if it's obviously grasping at straws.
  
  When I was in politics I have a friend that used to say: "The best way to win is not to act like them".
  I still live by that phrase. I don't want ro become then thing I want to destroy.
  Maybe it is just me. I cannot stand lies. I left political activism mostly because I saw people on my same group lying "for the cause". And I cannot be dishonest or stand dishonesty, no matter the cause.
  
  Personally, I would rather live in a democracy as a liar than die under fascism knowing that I always told the truth.
  
  The thing is that when you build something using the enemy tactics you end up with the country the enemy wanted.
  When you use fascist tactics you end up in a fascist state. If you don't believe me ask me most revolutionary countries that did "everything possible" to build the workers paradise.
  I don't really think there's a way to do bad things and end up with a good result.
  
  I don't really think there's a way to do bad things and end up with a good result
  Worked pretty well in WWII. when someone is as bad as the Nazis (and MAGA is every bit as bad as the Nazis), doing very bad things to them is the moral choice. You aren't hurting bad people, you are protecting good people, using the appropriate level of force required. It's a necessary use of violence to defend the good.
  
  If we are at war give me a rifle and let's go killing people.
  If we are not at war we shouldn't behave like that.
  Anyway, the allies didn't lie about the nazis. Or about the people killing the nazis.
  I'm 100% serious that I'm more against lying about the killer than against the assassination per se.
  Among other things, if the killed end up being left wing you are throwing a lot of shit about a a fellow leftist, calling him groyper, racist and everything. And he may be "one of us". That's a fucked up thing to do in the name of propaganda.
  
  Propaganda is just marketing. In fact, the guy who coined the word propaganda was an expert in marketing and advertising.
  MAGAs have the Conservative Propaganda Machine, which is a wonder to behold, and 100% responsible for their success. They are extremely organized and have been honing their skills for DECADES. The CPM recruits, indoctrinates, excuses, rallies, insults, spins, and much more. It is their nuclear weapon, and they deploy it all day, EVERY day.
  The Dems have literally nothing to offer in response. Even their own representatives, like Schmuck Schumer, are far more interested in insider trading than governing. He just recycles the same stern letter/speech for each loss of our Constitutional rights. Look at how Trump broadcasts his success with everything, even if it hasn't even happened. Contrast that with Biden, who had an extremely successful presidency, but the Dems didn't think it would be polite to brag. So his presidency ended up being dominated by his piss poor performance in reigning in MAGA, which was well within his rights and responsibilities to CRUSH as a viable National Security Threat, and he will forever be remembered as one of the weakest presidents in history.
  If the Dems are ever going to regain power, they need to get control of their messaging. Right now, it is literally non-existent. It needs to be coordinated, widespread, and LOUD.
  They also need a progressive platform, but that's a separate discussion.
  
  The Dems literally won Trump twice by popular vote.
  "The Dems being weak" is another piece of propaganda. They are a massive, powerful predatory organization. They have as much power as the GOP. But it's part of their propaganda machine to make people believe they are so weak, that's why things are not good. So people doesn't understand that things are bad when the Dems are in power because they don't want to do good things.
  The Democratic party behavior is one prime example on why I'm against lying for the cause. You end up with people that lies and brainwash their own people to keep in power.
  
  The Dems literally won Trump twice by popular vote.
  Hard to take you seriously when your first sentence is 100% factually wrong.
  
  2016 election:
  Donald Trump 62,984,828
  Hillary Clinton 65,853,514
  2020 election:
  Donal Trump 74,223,975
  Joe Biden 81,283,501
  But yeah, the Dems are "weak", and they don't have a propaganda machine to make people vote them.
  
  What makes lying bad?
- I’ll leave this here for others like me who apparently are really out of the loop
  Groypers, sometimes called the Groyper Army, are a group of alt-right, white nationalist, and Christian nationalist 41 activists led by Nick Fuentes. Groypers are a loosely defined group of Fuentes's followers and fans. They are named after a cartoon amphibian named "Groyper", a variant of the Internet meme Pepe the Frog.
- I'm sad that the supposedly better side is spreading missinformation and propaganda just like that.
  Specially because it's pushing a propaganda about "If your parents are X you are X". Which is really harmful for all the people not following the same ideology as their parents.
- We're starting to see Democrats react to things the same way MAGAs do. It may not be pretty, but the Michelle Obama Doctrine of "When they go low, we go high," led directly to the successful rise, and revival, of MAGA, so getting a little ugly has been needed for a long time.
  
  Michelle Obama Doctrine of “When they go low, we go high,” led directly to the successful rise, and revival, of MAGA,
  Do you mind expanding on this.
  
  They shouldn't have been so polite at the rise of MAGA. THE FBI have known that Trump was tangled up with money laundering for Russian Mobster Oligarchs since at least the early 90s. I always assumed that the reason they never arrested him was because he was an informant.
  So they knew exactly who he was when he got the nomination in 2016, and they should have arrested him then, but the Democrats were too polite. That's what kept Obama from being a great president - he was too polite to fight back. We ended up with Trump as president as a result, with the predictable incompetent results.
  But we managed to wrest it back, and had the opportunity to crush MAGA for all time. Biden would have been well within his Constitutional rights and especially his RESPONSIBILITIES, to declare Trump and his henchmen to be National Security Threats, and arrested immediately following his Inauguration, and I mean within minutes.
  But Biden followed the same weak polite policy for his entire presidency, and not only didn't press the prosecution of Trump, and others, he didn't promote his many other successful policies. In the absence of his celebrating his own success, MAGA was happy to fill the space with flat out lies about the same policies.
  We saw them stealing the election in real time, and I have a hard time believing that our intelligence agencies didn't know exactly what was going on, and yet the Dems did absolutely nothing, and allowed MAGA to steal another election, and probably every election in the future.
  And then there was the Dems standing aside, pouting, snorting, and stomping their feet, as McConnell stole two SCOTUS seats, instead of doing anything substantial.
  MAGA exists because bullies can only exist when someone agrees to be their victim. This is why I have been an Unaffiliated Independent since I first registered to vote in 1977. I don't want to be a bully, and I don't want to be the weak weenie victim.
- I have a lot of hate in my inbox for telling people that latching onto the groyper narrative was the equivalent of the right claiming the shooter is trans. They sure are quiet lately.
  You dumbasses out there just want distance from someone you don't want representing you.
  BE INTELLECTUALLY HONEST YOU FUCKING CHILDREN.
  We don't win by being as deluded as the WWE spectacle chuds who don't think and just want sides and teams and fighting for territory.
  
  shit, i was hoping this shooter was leftist. i was hoping he was the first sign that the left was willing to do more than just shout while they walk around with signs.
  
  Username checks out. Say hi to your FBI agent, mine says "sup."
  
  if you're not on a list by now, you're not doing it right.
- I can see the argument in favor of putting out literally any other story once bigoted lies start swirling. A narrative of any kind sticks better and provokes a feeling of uncertainty rather than just asking for it.
  Especially to sub-literate animals who understand tone but not actual words. Like Americans.
- They just needed it to be the right so bad that they went with whatever they could find.

179 comments