2mo ago

Ukraine proposes fresh peace talks with Russia next week

www.straitstimes.com Ukraine proposes fresh peace talks with Russia next week

President Zelensky reiterated his readiness to have a face-to-face sit-down with his Russian counterpart. Read more at straitstimes.com. Read more at straitstimes.com.

Kyiv has proposed to Moscow a new round of peace talks next week, Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelensky said on July 19, hours after Russian strikes across Ukraine claimed more lives.

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Ukraine isn't Russia. If Ukraine wants to join NATO or the EU that's their own business. Same goes for Georgia, none of them want to be associated with Russia because they're more than happy to invade and murder you for wanting change.
- Cuba isnt the United states. If Cuba wants to station Soviet nuclear missiles that is their business. Noone wants to be associated with the US because they are happy to invade and murder you for wanting change.
  North Korea isn't South Korea. If they want to develop nuclear weapons that is their business. Noone wants to be associated with the US because they are happy to invade and murder you for wanting change.
  Iran isn't Israel. If they want to develop nuclear weapons that is their business. Noone wants to be associated with the US because they are happy to invade and murder you for wanting change.
  Do you agree? If not why not? Do you feel threatened by any of these? By your own logic you feeling threatened does not give you any right to impede on anyones business.
  In the same wake if you live in the EU you should appreciate Hungary in its sovereignity seeking closer ties with China.
  Problem is that disregarding that the people outside the West perceive the West differently and refuse to play by different rules, leads to more escalations all over the world.
  All militaries around the world think in similiar terms. The US and many NATO countries invaded and occupied Iraq and Afghanistan because of some abstract threat they associated with these countries, being on the other side of the globe pretty much. Yemen is kept being bombed to support Israel, despite ships not destined for Israel being able to pass.
  The US runs bases all around China to be able to militarily contain China.
  Taiwan is given as strategic goal to defend, despite both Taiwand and China claiming "one China" and are just disputing about who is the legitimate government of that One China. So in essencense it is a nation internal struggle, that no other nation should have any business in by your logic.
  If NATO is projecting power, other countries will do so too.
  
  Ukraine isn't Russia. If they want to develop nuclear weapons that is their business.
  
  @Saleh
  You are conflating so many things that it’s hard to keep up.
  The cold war was a different situation, but yes, the US are an international bully and will invade you for their own gain.
  That doesn’t mean Russia has a right to invade any other country.
  That doesn’t mean that Hungary has a right to install authoritarian rule when it signed into a fundamentally democratic EU.
  Russia is breaking international law.
  The US have been breaking international law.
  Neither of those are ok.
  
  The question is, whether Russia is "right" to feel threatened, not whether the consequent actions were right.
  The comment i replied to outright denied Russia to be allowed to feel threatened and ridiculed it.
  And this why we keep getting into escalations. We deny other countries security interests, while declaring ours as righteous.
  
  @Saleh I’m trying to think of an instance when NATO was used as an excuse for an invasion from any side other than Russia’s invasion by Ukraine.
  The US have reliably made up their own excuses for their transgressions. I can’t currently remember them using NATO as an excuse.
  I honestly don’t see how NATO membership is a threat.
  Can it be construed as one? Surely - as much as one can find “weapons of mass destruction” when squinting hard enough. But that is then again not related to NATO.
  
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia%E2%80%93NATO_relations#Founding_Act
  In 1999, Russia condemned the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia,[54][55] which was done without a prior authorization by the United Nations Security Council, required by the international law.[56] For many in Moscow, a combination of NATO’s incorporation of Eastern Europe and its military attack on sovereign Yugoslavia exposed American promises of Russia’s inclusion into a new European security architecture as a deceit. Yeltsin’s critics said: ‘Belgrade today, Moscow tomorrow!’ [23]
  ...
  A drastic reversal in the US and NATO policy toward Russia occurred in December 2001. Most importantly, the US unilaterally withdrew from the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty with Russia in 2001–2002, which was followed by the US signing bilateral agreements with Poland and Romania (with NATO support) to build ballistic missile defense (BMD) systems in their territories, against Russian wishes. Although none of these events depended on NATO enlargement - not even the agreement to build BMD sites in Romania and Poland, given that the United States also has bilateral BMD equipment arrangements with a wide variety of non-NATO members (including Bahrain, Egypt, Israel, Japan, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, South Korea, Taiwan, and the United Arab Emirates) - this withdrawal was interpreted by the Russian political elite, and by many Western political scientists, as US exploitation of political and military weakness in Russia at the time, and led to the loss of Russia's trust in America's political intentions.[23]
  The US also called article 5 after 9/11 and the Afghanistan invasion was a "NATO and friends" mission. Also the Iraq invasion was done by various NATO members, even if it wasnt formally a NATO mission. However even countries not involved in the fightinf were provising logistics such as Germany.
  
  @Saleh so your argument is:
  Russia wanted other sovereign countries to do its bidding, but they didn’t comply.
  Saying that’s NATO’s fault is the political equivalent for throwing your toys out the pram.
  Saleh, you are disqualifying yourself from the discussion.
  Other countries don’t have to comply with Russia’s wishes. And if they don’t, Russia still doesn’t get to invade them.
- As we've seen already. This is a very naive take.
  What a country should be able to do or not is only valid if they have military might to defend their position
  Ukraine obviously don't have that against Russia
  
  Even more reason to join NATO then.
  
  If they could sneak into NATO before getting fucked by Russia it would be good to them
  
  Are you justifying the Russian invasion because Ukraine doesn't have the means to defend themselves from them without support? Your take suggests any country should invade another if they can't defend themselves.
  
  No, I'm suggesting the world is not fair and relations between countries are anarchical. If you take an aggressive stance against other countries, specially your neighbors, you should be prepared to defend it.
  So Ukraine wanting to join NATO is only one part of the game and other countries might wanna play too
  
  Ah, so it would be okay for the West to nuke the fuck out of Russia and take in Ukraine and Georgia and anyone else wanting to join up. Might makes right.

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