Trump administration working on plan to move 1 million Palestinians to Libya
Trump administration working on plan to move 1 million Palestinians to Libya
In exchange for the resettling of Palestinians, the administration would potentially release to Libya billions of dollars of funds that the U.S. froze more than a decade ago, those three people said.
You're viewing a single thread.
As I recall, it was important to punish the Biden administration for their role in assisting Israel.
As it turns out, there are severe consequences to ignoring absolutely every warning that Trump would be worse.
With regards to Israel / Palestine, watching this unfold under Biden reminded me of the scene in Saving Private Ryan where the one soldier was going "shhh" while pushing a knife into the other soldier. And someone else watching but not doing anything about it.
Remember that Biden flat out lied to the American public. He will be remembered for his complicity in genocide, and there is absolutely nothing he can do to prevent this legacy. History is written by the victors, but younger generations get the last word.
Trump is certainly worse for Americans, and I voted with this in mind, but both sides are fucking awful for Palestinians. Lest we forget Chuck "my job is to keep the left pro-genocide" Schumer.
Although not voting was the wrong move, It's important to hold the democrats accountable imo. They essentially lost the election because they considered genocide more important then their consituents.
The fact is that Gazas fate would have been the same under both party. The way forward is to demand change from the democratic party to avoid such scenarios. Blaming voters implies it wasnt the democrats at fault in the first place for pushing apathy and genocide as their main platform. Even worse, it implies genocide somehow shouldnt be a voting issue.
The hell it would have. To say that the fate of Gaza would have been the same is absolute horseshit.
Democrats lost the election because a bunch of shitheel Muricans decided to stay home.
It's our fault and fuck y'all for trying to blame Democrats for not inspiring people to protect marginalized groups.
Dems suck but so does the general population that refuses to take any responsibility for their part in making this happen.
If you need a god damn politician to inspire you to think beyond yourself, you fuckin suck and are trash.
Over it.
Edit: I'm not responding to any more of you kids who are trying to justify sitting on your asses. None of you have helped save a single Palestinian life.
You're just spoiled Americunts who think you're superheroes for doing nothing
There's absolutely no evidence that Harris getting elected would have done fuck all for Palestine.
Democrats lost because a lot of people who voted for Biden in 2020 voted for Trump in 2024. This was due to a perception of a majority of voters that Trump was going to do a better job on the economy, immigration, and foreign policy.
When you look at the polling data, the genocide of Palestinians does not rank high at all, even among Democrats.
Stop blaming people for what they do with their vote. That's the entire fucking point of a democracy. Hold the right people accountable for thinking they could coast to victory on a strategy of "not being Trump".
Except instead of talking about building a resort in Gaza, she wanted a two state solution.
I will blame people for a moral failing all I want. Y'all decided to latch on to ONE issue and didn't give a shit who was harmed because of it, because suddenly, after over half a century of genocide, NOW you gave a shit
You did what the algorithm wanted you to do, and you don't care who got hurt or is currently in El Salvador, because hey, at least your shit don't stink
My trans son says "fuck you".
You are a wannabe. You don't give a shit about genocide. Because if you did, you'd do everything you could to save lives.
But instead you decided it was morally superior to let Trump in.
You're all bastards who have put my loved ones in danger.
She was lying, fucking duh
No. She said her policies didn't differ from biden's. biden did nothing to pressure netanyahu to stop the genocide.
Crab, we've been over this before, EVERY MONTH from becoming the candidate to the election Harris was advocating for an immediate cease fire, the release of hostages, and a two-state solution. Over, and over again.
Polar opposite of Trumps “sweep them out and take over.”
August: https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/23/politics/gaza-israel-harris-convention-speech/index.html
Could she PERSONALLY negotiate it as VP? No, the VP has no real power unless the Senate is stuck on a 50/50 vote.
Could she PERSONALLY negotiate it as a candidate for President? No, US civilians are blocked from engaging in diplomatic action.
So a) not a function of her job, b) not a function of her candidacy.
ALL she could do was talk about what she would do if elected 1) Immediate cease fire, 2) Hostage release, 3) Two-State solution. July, August, September, October.
The "BUH BUH GENOCIDE!!!" crowd completely ignored what she was saying because they didn't want to hear it, they are so crawled up inside their own assholes they can't hear anything.
Harris is not Biden. Again, read her statements, month after month, after month. July, August, September, October.
She was far more likely to treat Netanyahu as the dishonest broker that he is. Biden was blinded by the history of Israel, Harris did not have that same handicap.
HER handicap was not being able to publicly diverge from Biden policy, she should have, but couldn't afford to alienate the Biden machine.
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/5191087-harris-trump-biden-harris/
"No no trust us, I'm against Israel's genocide, I'm just not gonna use any influence to stop it, I'm not going to make it part of my campaign, I'm going to tell people protesting the genocide to shut up and that I'm speaking. I am clearly anti-genocide, just let me keep with Biden's pro-genocide polices."
She was far more likely to treat Netanyahu as the dishonest broker that he is.
So she publicly stated that Israel should stop, would fight to stop it more than Biden, and was pro-Palestine.
Right?
Exactly, she wanted a two-state solution and argued for it on multiple occasions as cited above.
Trump wanted waterfront real estate.
Voting doesn't mean I support genocide.
I guess I support school shootings too? Guess I suppose privatized healthcare as well.
You're fuckin reaching.
I would be too if I assisted Trump regaining power
She didn't support it and stated so multiple times.
Y'all just pick and chose what you decided to pay attention to.
Her campaign was fuckin tight. Y'all acting like it was just a bumbling shit show.
That's the voters who stayed at home.
I voted for Harris and I blame the democrats. They knew the stakes, they know the populist moment we're in, and they decided that their best strategy was to take all the excitement and buzz of the new Kamala candidacy and say "we're not going to really change anything; if things suck for you, no they don't, actually, you're just stupid lol; anyway, look, here's Katy Perry and Barack Obama lecturing down to a bunch of black men." The DNC twisted Kamala's arm to make sure she didn't insult Biden by saying she'd do anything different, because protecting the feefees of long standing and well regarded party members is more important than winning or getting shot done. The DNC decided to stack Kamala's campaign with the same staff that lost the HRC campaign. Nobody made them decide that celebrity guest appearances were more important than proposing actually good changes to get out the vote, but here we are.
What evidence do you have for your claim that things are worse in Gaza under Trump than they were under the Biden/Kamala path?
Note, rhetoric is not evidence. Trump lies all the time. Biden lies all the time. Trump says he would like the US to ethnically cleanse Gaza, but he's taken no actual steps towards that end. And Biden also tried to negotiate resettlement of the Gazans to other countries.
All I'm seeing here are vibe. You see someone who is objectively a bad human being, and you decide that they must be the worst possible person on Earth for every conceivable category. Trump can be far worse domestically than Biden while still being equivalent to him in terms of Palestine.
So again, don't quote me rhetoric. I don't care about Trump's verbal diarrhea. What actual material things can you point to that are different from what Biden was allowing without any resistance? Because I think you're mostly just going on vibes.
You're asking me to compare Biden and Trump.
Was Biden or Kamala talking about how great it would be to have a resort on the beach there, oh wait. That's rhetoric, and in no way is that a reflection of their actions or intentions.
Where y'all at now, anyway? Haven't seen any of you protesting lately. Don't you still give a shit, or has the talking point you used to stay at home done it's job?
I don't owe you a god damn thing.
You're rewriting history. People stayed home because they refused to vote for genocide, and that's what Democrats offered unapologetically. You don't get to blame the voter for not choosing between genocide or genocide plus, you're not morally superior for voting for Harris.
Side note: while the Gaza genocide was absolutely a factor for many people, I really don’t think most of the voting base used that as the basis for their vote (or for staying home). Americans by and large have become wildly selfish and egocentric, as a society (and I say that as an American who does their best to be an outlier in that regard). I really do think that the biggest determinant of a person staying home was fatigue at the status quo, and a couple of years of 10% inflation alongside the fact that everyone in the DNC was trumpeting about how great the economy was doing, while a VERY large percentage of the populace had lived through at least two “once in a lifetime” economic crises, and the playing field continues to get visibly worse as time goes on.
Then vote for a third party, and make your voice heard. If 10% of the vote went to an anti-genocide party, at least next time Democrats would realise that being pro-genocide is bad for them.
Then vote for a third party, and make your voice heard. If 10% of the vote went to an anti-genocide party, at least next time Democrats would realise that being pro-genocide is bad for them.
They already realize it and don't care.
Yes I do. And yes I am.
You said "I don't care what the trolley does because this test isn't moral"
The rest of us actually made a choice.
Get fucked. You helped put my trans son in danger and I don't fuck with ANY of you fucks cosplaying as revolutionaries.
You're children.
I'm trans. I voted for Kamala, but I have zero hate on anyone who didn't due to Gaza.
The Democrat's problem isn't just Gaza. It's what the enabling of a genocide signals and means. If you will enable a literal ethnic cleansing, what won't you do? You've literally already elevated things to full-on Hitlerian levels. If you're willing to do that for political power, there is nothing you won't do.
And as we've seen recently, Democrats have frequently thrown trans people under the bus. Even Kamala didn't even try to refute the endless barrage of anti-trans ads thrown by the Republicans.
When asked if she supported trans care for inmates, do you know what she said? She said, "we'll follow the law." She was defending her past actions as California attorney general to provide trans prisoners gender-affirming healthcare. But when given the perfect opportunity to stand up for trans people everywhere, she said that she only did it because it's what the law required of her.
Someone who actually gave a shit about trans lives would never say something like that. Instead they would say, "of fucking course prisoners get trans healthcare. Trans healthcare is medically-necessary care. It saves lives. To deny someone that care or to force them to detransition is literal torture. We sentence people to prison. We don't sentence them to torture. We give inmates gender-affirming healthcare because to do otherwise is cruel and unusual punishment."
That's how you actually answer that question if you have an ounce of empathy in your soul for trans people or any understanding of the issue at all. If you make trans care some frivolous thing that can be denied to prisoners, then all trans identities are frivolous and undeserving of legal recognition or respect in any context.
And there are far worse Democrats than Kamala. Plenty of centrist Dems are willing to throw trans people under the bus if they can earn cheap political points. It turns out that if you're willing to support a literal genocide, then persecuting a small minority group isn't that big an ask. Once you've committed murder, shoplifting isn't something you think twice about.
Quit using your trans son as an excuse, you supported a pro-genocide party because you were willing to trade the lives of innocent palestinians to secure your own security and comfort.
Quit assuming literally everyone who voted blue loooooves genocide.
I'm sorry you don't have a sense of nuance in your life. Must be easy having a black and white existence.
Get fucked, kid.
Quit assuming literally everyone who voted blue loooooves genocide.
When people stop saying you're a fool for being a "single issue voter" against genocide and that Harris had to support genocide to win, I will.
There's no nuance to be had, you're comfortable trading the lives of countless palestinians for your own comfort and safety, it's actually just that simple. You deserve Trump and worse.
"I can't be pro-genocide, I have a kid I only care about when it wins me a victory on the internet aginast people with consistent morals."
It just wasn't an important issue when they looked at the polling data. The average American cares more about a lot of other stuff over ethnic cleansing in Palestine.
The incumbent administration looked weak in so many ways, that taking a stance against Israel would not have made a difference. Politically, it was just a wedge issue on the left. They needed to win the voters that moved from Biden to Trump, and the DNC was (and probably still is) entirely incapable of taking any big swings.
They lost because they actually expected to. Neither party actually gives a shit about democracy; power is just a mantle they pass back and forth. They are in a "you win this time" holding pattern waiting for the Republicans to fuck things up so badly that they can come back and win in '26 and '28.
I think the ghoulish cartoon you paint of Democrats foaming at the mouth at the ongoing genocide in Gaza is inaccurate. Let me be clear, there is genocide happening as part of ethnic cleansing for the entire promised land of Israel. I expect Israel to attempt to expand into Syria next, all the way up the coast to Turkey.
And yeah, USA will sell arms to whomever has the money to buy them, no matter who controls what branch of government.
Ok I am making assumptions about internal polling done by the DNC or the Harris campaign, but Pew and Gallup published poll data before the election.
It's the cynicism that is bred by and fuels the political furnace. Cynicism can be understood and respected by your opposition.
Those decades have been spent working to keep progressive and leftist voices out of their party, especially ones that threaten their scaffolding of seniority and stability. They have actively prevented the DNC from what the right pulled off with the Tea Party Movement by tightening the reigns on primaries, disenfranchising and ignoring grassroots movements showing good faith, selling out to corporate lobbies, keeping fresh ideas out of policy by manipulating committee appointments, and so much more.
And are they sorry at all when their machinations play into the hands of fascists? No, they actually seem fucking proud of it.
I don't think it's as unilateral across the party, but the leadership certainly have let Israel and AIPAC too far up their ass. For politics it's all just money imo.
Also, a lot of people do not care, especially older folks who remember Israel being scrappy in the 60s, or just care about how to pay for their health care or mortgage. Gaza and West Bank genocide is really important to the internet, but a lot of people in their 40s and up are not online much.
Yeah no shit, they fucking ass. I still voted for Harris with puke in my mouth, though. For me to back another Dem for president in the future, it needs to be someone I want to vote for. Otherwise, I'm voting for whatever candidate aligns most closely with my values.
I think we agree on the broad points, I just don't think that the Harris campaign position on genocide was a big enough factor to swing the election either way. I believe all of their policy positions were calculated to protect party funding streams as much or more than winning the election.
The problems with Dems are so systemic, that it reaches far beyond that single campaign. How many congressional seats did they also lose? How many state legislatures are Republican super majority?
I'm not very clever on solutions, but involvement in local politics is where it starts. This is where I honestly think we are truly well fucked, though. People are too fucking busy and scraping by to get involved. Even though the people doing it for the Democrats are super old and burned out in most cases, they want young people to get more involved and will appoint them to positions and run them for councils and shit.
That's what the right did. Grass roots shit, school boards, party committee headquarters, etc. I just assume someone else who is smarter, more qualified, and motivated is taking care of that shit, but that's probably not the case.
If genocide is all "centrists" care about then they would be fucking ecstatic over Trump's policy not mad.
... Wait, that they're getting now?
So they should be happy?
I mean, your argument is incoherent enough I think you need to consider an appointment with a mental health professional.
Not if you don’t admit it to yourself and others!
We need to do something about this censorship.
I looked up their mod history and saw "Anti-Yanks ban evasion" What does that even mean?
What is currently happening, and how it's happening, is a direct result of the thought process you've outlined.
Of all instances in time, it's now that you want to crank the Both Parties Are the Same knob?
Let's be real, the Biden administration didn't achieve one single thing to slow things down. While they wagged a finger with one hand, they handed over billions of dollars of bombs with the other. They arranged peace talks that Israel super super promised they'd finally show up to this time and then didn't for the seventh consecutive time in a row, and the Biden administration went "okay" and handed them more bombs. Maybe Trump is objectively worse, but it's hard to imagine that a Harris presidency would be meaningfully better in this particular regard based on the actions, not the words, of the Biden administration.
Edit: to be clear, I voted for Harris, because I still wanted to reduce harm, but I really was expecting the older, more powerful, more pro-genocide voices in the party to be steering the wheel here, not Harris.
Maybe Trump is objectively worse
Maybe hurricanes are windy.
Ehh. Is there a meaningful difference between "we'll help you do genocide and pretend to feel bad about it" and "we'll help you do genocide and build a casino on top of the bodies"? One feels worse, for sure, but the functional distinction is marginal.
To me, this is an unscientific position. What actions on Gaza has the Trump regime taken that are demonstrably worse than what the Biden administration allowed? Are you forming your judgements based on faith or actual critical thought and observation?
Yes, Trump says a lot of things that are worse than those Biden said. But politicians lie all the time. Biden lied about trying to rein in Israel, and Trump so far has blustered a whole lot about mass atrocities he would like to do. But he hasn't actually done those.
Again, forget the rhetoric. Trump is a dancing rage clown and you're getting distracted by by the clown.
What has Trump done, MATERIALLY, in Gaza, that is any worse than what Biden did? Again, not rhetoric, actual real-world actions.
What actions on Gaza has the Trump regime taken that are demonstrably worse than what the Biden administration allowed?
I often see this question asked, and I wonder if those asking have been asleep the past few months?
Under Biden:
Under Trump:
As a result people now face mass starvation and the prospect of being fully ethnically cleansed.
I understand Biden was extremely disappointing. I thought he was too. But we shouldn't kid ourselves that he was in any way equally bad as Trump has been. And given what Trump and Israel have been saying, the worst is likely to come.
Israel was still negotiating with Hamas for a ceasefire and release of hostages. A ceasefire deal was even reached.
As I recall, Israel almost always said they would go to these, and then didn't, without even telling the Biden administration they were going to miss it. They'd just dead ass no show and leave the Biden team twisting in the wind. Then team Biden would say "well, okay, I guess we have no choice but to give them more bombs."
Israel reduced but still allowed some foreign aid.
My dude, the way I remember it, we had to build a float dock because Israel wouldn't allow any aid to come in by ground, and for the little bit they did, they murdered the people who tried to get it. Then, the float dock broke up, and we all just kind of shrugged.
I am one hundred percent convinced that you have zero interest in this, other than to be an agent of chaos.
If you cared at all in any capacity, you'd be intensely aware that Jared Kurschner has spoken about sales of beachfront Lebensraum.
I suspect that Donald Trump's son in law discussing real estate sales of Palestine shows up nowhere in your online outrage.
I one hundred percent expect that you will pivot back to Democrats Bad.
If the US ever gets to have another presidential election, the account you are using here will never scrutinize what the Trump administration has done, but you will do your utmost to say Both Parties Same.
As I recall, it was important to punish the Biden administration for their role in assisting Israel.
It's the duty of every human being in the world not to support criminal rulers with blood on their hands and to call them out. Instead of accusing people who didn't voted for murderers you should take your time to inform yourself and realize that the US government and many other government around the globe have been assisting and supporting israel government for decades
What makes you think the Biden administration would have done anything differently?
Do you honestly believe they would have gotten in the way of what Israel wants?
What makes you think the Biden administration would have done anything differently?
My basic observation skills and low tolerance for bullshit.
Do you honestly believe they would have gotten in the way of what Israel wants?
I'll go out on a limb here, and say that Kamala Harris would not be working to ship Palestinians to Africa.
You know what? I think that Netanyahu's progress (murder rate) would be much much lower than it is today.
Remember how Biden wasn't running for reelection? Yeah no one else does, either.
Biden would have let his buddy BiBi literally kill every last one is us, don't kid yourself.
Biden would have let his buddy BiBi literally kill every last one is us, don't kid yourself.
World opinion on Israel is deteriorating, and has been deteriorating for decades. Punishing democrats enabled the current administration.
Trump is an accelerant. He is currently helping BiBi kill Palestinians at a rate and scale that will bring him closer to his goals, faster than the world finally turns on him.
The Now is consequences of poor voting decisions.
World opinion on Israel is deteriorating, and has been deteriorating for decades.
So maybe harris shouldn't have hitched her wagon to that particular horse.
Thank God we didn't let that happen...
Mussolini or Hitler. Should I pick the least worse?
... Yes, yes you absolutely should.
There is literally no comparison there, you absolute grapefruit, Hitler killed something like 30 million people all told, mussolini killed maybe thousands max.
"haha, should I shoot myself in the leg, or in the head, hurr durr!"
Fucking children.
Yep either party will allow Israel to kill children which is a no-brainer. US needs a third or fourth party.
Or tenth?
Or have everyone who isn't republican vote for themselves to split the vote further?
Honestly at that point just have them vote GOP, it has the same effect.
LOL. The end cracked me up
First one then the other.
Whichever was weakest to eliminate the strongest, then rinse and repeat.
Your insane childishness is thinking that either matters.
Both need to lose, the GOP should always lose and be destroyed, that's the actual end goal.
Hitler was weaker than Stalin. Thank you for clarifying that you would ally with Hitler.
Hitler was winning. He was exterminating Stalin who would have lost without our help.
And Stalin killed as many people as Hitler eventually had before the war even started.
I don't care about Hitler or Stalin, but I'll 'ally' with either to make sure both die painfully.
Destroying the GOP is my only goal, there's time to think past that when it's done.
Btw, in this metaphor, we beat both, and we did it well.
Edit: Stalin stronger than Hitler, hahaha.
Worthless dickless genocidal fuck got his ass handed to him by a handful of Finns, just like their great grandchildren are being made removed by Ukraine.
Voting against them worked 3 times out of the last 5.
Should have worked more but people didn't understand the only thing that matters is causing the GOP pain.
Pick the party that Benjamin Netanyahu wouldn't be willing to give a solid gold pager as a gift/public relations gesture.
Considering they gave a silver pager to fetterman, that's not the win you seem to think it is.
