4d ago

the state doesn't care anymore

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Will you stop posting shit claiming he was accidentally deported? He was deported intentionally. The government lawyer who argued in court that the government had deported Garcia by mistake has since been fired. Stephen Miller himself said that "There was no mistake". They are deporting whoever they can get their hands on.
- He wasn't deported, he was kidnapped and sent to a concentration camp.
  
  That's called a deportation though: https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/deportations
  
  til deportations aren't just sending them to a different country, and out-of-the-country camps count as deportating (not sarcasm, I seriouslly didn't know that)
  
  It's a strategy to call it that
  
  That's because it's bullshit to use the same term for both completely different things
  
  Ethnic cleansing
  
  In this case being more verbose makes sense. The current public-knowledge definition doesn't cover this case, so it makes sense to describe exactly what happened.
- The Trump administration said in court filings he was accidentally deported.
  That accident was because they are deporting whoever they can get their hands on.
  
  Did 2 judges deem him to be MS13? Because if they did I’m getting Rittenhouse vibes over this. Dems jumping up and down/flooding the internet by calling him (Rittenhouse) a murderer. The law is clear, as dumb and idiotic as Rittenhouse was, someone pointed a gun at someone who was also armed. He defended himself. But Dems were in so deep they were acting like brainwashed Republicans. This may end up similar. Dems are in too deep, soaking up post after post telling them he was never part of MS13 and are too arrogant to admit they were wrong.
  
  Congratulations!
  
  Oh, my sides. That is a great award.
  
  And yet you have added nothing to the conversation. Well done alekwithak
  
  You've already spouted so much blatant misinformation it's clear you only absorb what conforms to your fucked up worldview. I've wasted enough time arguing with people who don't care about facts and reality. Now I just give them silly awards and move on, and it is just as productive.
  
  Thanks for the rebuttal
  
  You've actually subtracted from the conversation by spreading false information that the rest of us have to go and correct.
  
  Wanna know the difference between Abrego Garcia and Rittenhouse?
  I'll give you a hint: One of them was afforded due process.
  Here's another thing that you might not know. Being a member of a gang is not illegal in and of itself (freedom of association). If it was, the KKK and the Proud Boys and Patriot Front and all those other chud gangs wouldn't be allowed to exist. So it doesn't matter one iota if Abrego Garcia was a member of MS-13 or not. The only thing that matters in terms of deporting him are his legal residence status, and his criminal record. And guess what? He was here legally, having been given "withholding of removal" status by an immigration judge, and he has no criminal record.
  
  I thought MS 13 was deemed an international terrorist org? The others you mentioned are not. If this happened retrospectively in Kilmars case then I believe it would make his deportation illegal.
  
  So I had to look it up, and apparently Trump signed an EO on February 25th designating MS-13 as a "Foreign Terrorist Organization", which makes no sense because it's an American gang.
  But that doesn't matter, because on March 15th Abrego Garcia was deported without ever having been proven to be a member of MS-13. No presumption of innocence, no charges filed, no access to a lawyer, no chance to ever argue his innocence in a court of law. You know, that whole "due process" thing that we used to care about.
  Regardless of what you think of this man, his rights were violated. That means your rights were also violated, because if the rights of the US Constitution don't apply to everyone, then they don't apply to anyone.
  
  I thought it was a Mexican gang? Isn’t it similar to what bush and obama did with sending terrorists to Guatemala?
  
  Do you mean Guantanamo? Yeah, it's similar, and just as repulsive and illegal. In fact, what they did set the precedent for what Trump is doing.
  
  Yes, Guantanamo. And I agree both are horrible and illegal
  
  Do you want to see the court transcripts showing that he was never in the state that the person accusing him of being a gang member said he was in? Or the court ruling that said he wasn't a gang member?
  When you read the 5th amendment do you skip the "No person" section?
  
  But, hey, I've been living in terror because of this perhaps or perhaps-not even real "gang", that hardly anyone has ever heard of, and I'd bet money less than 0.01% of MAGAs would even recognize the name of. It'd all just about cruelty and pushing slowly further and further into naziesque racist control.
  
  I’m not disagreeing or agreeing I’m just pointing out the issues with each narrative and don’t want to be sucked into another embarrassing false narrative by the Dems. One side is saying he was MS13 and a duel citizen and the other is suggesting he was not MS13. If he was not in the state, that doesn’t disprove he was MS13, which as far as I can tell is what this is all hinging on. Legally speaking though it is on the judge to show sufficient evidence for their ruling. If they couldn’t get the state he was in right that does call into question the rest of his judgement about him being MS13.
  INAL but no person would apply only to US citizens? Kilmar being a duel citizen is where it gets grey?
  
  Can you show one source claiming he was a dual citizen? You are literally the first person I've seen make that claim.
  You fundamentally misunderstand the state-gang claim. One person said he was in the gang when he was in the other state. Except he has never been to that state. That's one of the reasons a judge found the claim he was in the gang by be completely baseless. A judge. The judge that reviewed all the evidence.
  Nine Supreme Court justices, the president, and the lawyers representing the president all agreed that Kilmar Abrego Garcia was here legally and was illegally deported without due process. Yet people who can barely pass a Turing test know more than these experts and came to a different conclusion.
  No person means no person. Citizen or otherwise. The Constitution doesn't grant rights. It assumes they are inalienable to all people and established rules telling the government they couldn't take them away. This is constitutional law 101. Everyone gets due process. Citizen or otherwise. Because the alternative was the road to tyranny.
  
  Thanks for that. The only sources are from White House officials and Pam Bondi. I know they’re very low credibility sources but that is the only place this argument is coming from and unfortunately the only group of people who have control over the situation.
  As for the constitution, i don’t think it can legally cover non us citizens defining “persons”. Persons inside the country though yes. Trump and his crackpot team I believe are arguing that because he’s no longer in the country that he doesn’t get covered by the constitution. Ridiculous I know. I suppose it’s like murdering someone and saying they don’t have rights because they are dead and only living people have rights.
  
  The only sources are from White House officials and Pam Bondi.
  Oh. Oh no.
  
  another embarrassing false narrative by the Dems.
  Rittenhouse got due process, as much as I and many others regret the jury's verdict.
  Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia got no due process, so no judge nor jury got to cast a verdict on the Trump Administration's claims. Instead, Trump acted as judge, jury, and executioner by sending Garcia to El Salvador when we knew he obtained a withholding of removal specifically for that country in 2019.
  Even if the narratives were false, in Garcia's case, Trump is removing your rights. That alone should be enough to pay attention and disapprove of Trump's actions.
  he was MS13
  He was not. He immigrated to the US without proper documentation in 2011 at the age of 16 to escape gangs in El Salvador. Why would you try to escape gangs if you were part of one?
  a duel citizen
  He was not a dual citizen. Garcia has citizenship in El Salvador, but received a withholding of removal status in the US, an alternative to asylum. He was a legal resident of the US, and a legal citizen of El Salvador.
  he was not MS13
  This is true.
  that doesn’t disprove he was MS13
  No evidence was presented in immigration court that Garcia was part of MS-13. Instead, hearsay from a police officer (who later was found to supply confidential information to an escort, breaking his oath as a cop) and a anonymous informant (who said Garcia was in a NYC MS-13 gang, when Garcia lived in Maryland, not NYC) were deemed good enough for the immigration court. Neither the police officer nor informant were allowed to be cross-examined at the time, so we have no idea if these are lies or not. The judge didn't allow it.
  it is on the judge to show sufficient evidence for their ruling.
  Do you mean it is on the lawyers accusing Garcia to show sufficient evidence? The judge doesn't show evidence in a trial... They rule on the evidence...
  does call into question the rest of his judgement about him being MS13
  As it should. The entire thing was a sham.
  no person would apply only to US citizens?
  This sentence does not make any sense.
  Kilmar being a duel citizen
  Again, Garcia was not a dual citizen. He was a legal resident of the US as afforded by a withholding of removal verdict, and a legal citizen of El Salvador.
  Please for the love of Truth educate yourself before speaking nonsense on the internet. You literally have Chrome or Firefox at your fingertips.
  
  No due process. And no matter what the right wing hate machine is telling you, no, he's never been in MS13. He had asylum and non deportation orders precisely because a judge wanted to protect him from MS13.
  
  Ok thanks. This whole thing hinges on him being in MS13 so hopefully the proof of this can get out there
  
  This whole thing hinges on him being in MS13 so hopefully the proof of this can get out there
  The entire point is to send people to death camps without due process. It's the only reason you're supporting it.
  
  Quite a leap. Good luck to you I guess
  
  Then let me break it down into tiny fash-sized chunks for you.
  El Salvador is operating a death camp.
  Trump is sending people there without due process, and
  You're supporting it.
  
  Thanks for clearing that up for me. Still not sure how I'm supporting it but I must be if you say so
  
  Still not sure how I’m supporting it
  uh huh.

260 comments