Duality of US political discussion on Lemmy

I just wish people would stop focusing on something from the past that cannot be undone. And if you voted for Trump and regret your choice and actually have achieved empathy in the process I have no reason to make you my enemy. This is not the time to be going after each other when everyone is going to get fucked. You can silently enjoy someone's misfortune, but it's a misfortune that we will all see and experience in due time and it's not productive for the future we are all going to endure. And right now, whether you are a democrat or a republican, the rest of the world is angry at you. Nobody is going to come and save the US and we need to get our shit together and stop focusing on what can't be undone.
If you look at polling there is a significant number of republicans that are just as angry as democrats. And we need to help them so they can help us. The only thing blaming and "owning" each other is going to accomplish is that nothing will change. It's like being on a sinking ship while everyone laughs that the other guy is going to drown while making no effort to get off the boat.
- Republicans made an entire industry out of hating democrats way back in the 90s. They’re not going to work with us. Ever. And every time Democrats try to work with them it has ended up badly.
  
  Republican oligarchs aren't going to change. Republican voters can and do.
  Class warfare is in full effect and the billionaires need the rest us to stay divided so that they can continue their war on us.
  
  democrats working with republicans led us to weimar joe and the appeasement era
  
  I think this is certainly true of the Republican Party. But ignoring republican voters is political suicide. There are too many of them. They must be reckoned with, one way or another.
  
  What industry? And what happened in the 90s?
- No working with fascist enablers.

Most Americans either voted for the orange moron or didn't care enough to vote against him. And there was plenty of evidence about what he was going to do; there was his first term, and there were all his speeches about what he was going to do, and is now doing.
So there is no excuse. Most Americans approved this, either implicitly or explicitly, because they did not vote for the alternative. Honestly I'm surprised Harris couldn't win simply with the message "I'm not Trump."
- Most Americans either voted for the orange moron or didn't care enough to vote against him.
  It's understandable to be frustrated, but this statement ignores America's long history of voter disenfranchisement.
- This is the correct answer. Not to act is to act by deciding not to act.
- That last part is the least surprising thing imaginable. Reveals a deep misunderstanding of how and why people actually vote
- America is the epicenter of social media brainrot. 'I'm not Trump' would never be good enough there. It needs to come with a TikTok dance or something else flashy and provocative.

America is too large to make generalizations about it. Politics, culture, and beliefs are all very highly localized and even worse, it's land that votes, not people. People who come from countries the size of a single US state will never fully understand.
- This is something I think gets lost in discussions a lot. The USA is massive and fragmented, the fragmentation being intentional with state individuality.
  I remember a German family that thought they could easily do LA, Vegas, and the Grand Canyon in a couple of days.
  
  The US has more similarities to the EU diversity-wise than almost any other individual nation.

"Why don't Americans just launch The Revolution?"
If only all it took was the government doing a genocide

On 2024-11-05, of the eligible voting population in the US, roughly:
⅓ voted for Trump.
⅓ voted for someone other than Trump.
⅓ didn’t vote.
As far as I’m concerned, if you’re eligible to vote and choose not to, you’re implicitly throwing your support behind whoever wins.
⅔ of the eligible US voting population to some degree support, and are responsible for, everything that is happening in their federal government now.
The rest of the world interpreted it as the US saying it doesn’t wish to be taken seriously for at least the next 2 years. We can resume discussion when they decide to choose adults to represent them again.
- If you didnt vote, you voted for this.

This is also the case in the UK, and it's the size of . . . what, Alabama?
- In area or population? As the UK is roughly double the size of alabama by land area and a little under double the population of california.
  
  You're right. Make it Michigan.

Regarding comment 2, there is nothing legal that can be done about the situation. What am I supposed to do? Enjoy a vacation to Gitmo?
- If you’re successful then you don’t need to go

The main problem is that America is turning into a Nazi bar.
- America might be past the Nazi bar and at the Nazi brewery...

I live in an area where most people think a certain way. And wouldn't you know it! Everyone around me thinks that certain way. Extrapolate to all other areas.
- I heard it on Lemmy, so it must be true everywhere.

At face value and objectively it’s wrong.
Most Americans did not vote for Trump.
Here’s how it works:
*US Population, adult over 18: ~250 million.
*Of that population, ~244 million are eligible to vote.
*Of eligible voters, only 63.9% voted.
*Of the 63.9%, less than half, 49.8%, went to Trump. To re-emphasize that point, Trump did not get more than 50%.
*Harris got 48.3%
*The ~1% difference voted third party.
The math is pretty basic. 63.9% of 250 million is 159.7 million voting, 49.8% of that voting for trump is 79.5 million.
So out of 250 million, ~32% actually voted for trump. The rest is the issue with the electoral college, but we’re talking people, not the EC.
But wait, that’s just voters. What about people?
Pew shows 49% Democrats, 48% Republican, 3% other, so 52% are not Republican.
So by no metric are a majority conservative or Republican.
- Maybe "Most Americans support Trump" is wrong, but "most Americans do not oppose Trump" isn't.
  
  This is the accurate assessment.
  The vast majority of Americans allowed Trump to become president by either voting for him or failing to show up at the ballot box.
  Out of all forms of governance, those that live under a democracy have the least credibility when claiming that their government does not represent them.
  It should be known that the takeaway from this is not just that Trump cannot be trusted. That was already known. Many nations, including America's allies, are learning that America's voting base can no longer be trusted. The lesson here is that we're always going to be 4 years away from attempts at global destabilization if we continue to allow America to be the world's preeminent super power.
  Which is why nearly every nation is putting together a plan to divest in the US. America, as a whole, is no longer a reliable partner.
  Even if MAGA and its ideology dies with this presidency, America is going to be spending the next few decades winning the world's trust back. China will likely take its place in the meantime.
- The main point of contention between the 2 comments is: is not voting despite being eligible an endorsement of the winner?
  
  is not voting despite being eligible an endorsement of the winner?
  Context is king. For some places, sure, like in Japan the voter turnout is always around 40% and is typically seen as endorsement for the Japanese Liberal party that de facto rules the country for 70 years. But in the US, it is more nuanced than that. It could mean Americans who abstained don't like either candidates, or felt that federal policies won't affect their states and thus "Trump-proofed". Or for the staunchly Republican states, they feel that voting for presidential elections won't affect anything.
  If Democrats really want to win the next presidential election, the party really needs to change and excite voters.
  
  You can endorse the winner and not vote, or even the opposite, or vote for the winner. Whether or not you vote doesn’t take away your opinion on the results. It’s not really an issue that needs debating.
  
  This is a case where the outcome trumps process or rationale.
  Regardless of whatever personal reason someone may have for not voting in the election, their lack of participation has allowed Trump to take power, leading to the global instability we see today.
  They have therefore cosigned America's role in leading the world into this period of uncertainty.
  Which is why America's standing in the world is about to diminish and the concept of the 'Western world' is growing increasingly fragile.
  Non voters bear some responsibility for this, regardless of their personal views.
  Which is why many outside the US put non voters and Trump voters in the same bucket. Both evil and apathy towards evil have the ability to do incredible harm, especially when paired.
- A non-vote is supporting both sides equally so you can count them in the vote for the winner
  
  That’s some logic all right.

It's not like they suddenly appeared a few months before the election.

It's your country and your representatives, those are the people you chose that our leaders have to deal with. Besides it does not matter if you support them or not, these people you chose as leaders clearly do not give a single fuck. I would feel sorry for you, but sadly you dug yourself into this hole no matter what. So it does not matter which most is the real one, all US citizens still will have to deal with the same shitty choices they've made.
If the situation was that of China or Russia, maybe individuals should be given a bit more benefit of the doubt, but you're talking about the literal self proclaimed "land of the free".

The best when i wrote to someone how objectively you have to blame all USA because 2/3 help trump get elected, and 2/3 support genocide of Palestinian people ( both Democrats and republican ) and they told me to “fuck off”
It is sad because they dont even know that they dont live in a democracy and dont know that it is possible to have a system that allow for balanced power distribution.
- I can see how the genocide comment could rub people the wrong way.
  
  Well again objectively 2/3 of US are okay with it so it is expected to see 1 to 3 ratio of up and down votes when we call the genocide country what they are.