Trump signs executive order requiring proof of citizenship to register to vote in federal elections
Trump signs executive order requiring proof of citizenship to register to vote in federal elections
You're viewing a single thread.
Solution:
Motor-voting registration in all states through the DMV. You already have to prove citizenship for Real ID. Make sure everyone getting a state ID is also registered to vote.
Then you do 100% vote by mail.
Republicans: "Wait, not like that..."
Do ya one better. Make voting mandatory.
Now THAT would end the Republican party forever. And it would be an easy sell for Democrats too.
"Since our president loves democracy and voting integrity so much, let's pass a bipartisan law requiring all eligible citizens to vote or face penalties of fines and imprisonment."
Then watch the mental gymnastics of MAGAs trying to argue how mandatory voting and voting in general is a bad idea.
These are the same Republicans who stand for less government interference. You really think they will agree to force their people to vote?
They only want less government in regulation of businesses to make easier and more profitable to plunder society.
Otherwise they're all over the idea of telling people what to do or think or who to worship, etc.
less government interference
Trump has made his first quarter all about tariffs and deportation. We need to drop this decades-gone lie that they ever cared about reducing government.
Even this EO is interfering in state's rights.
The point you're replying to is that when called out on their bullshit, they will revert to their talking points. Being a hypocrite is unrelated.
I don't think this is clear cut anymore. Low information voters broke very hard for Trump. Democrats have work to do to win back the average voter, but the adage of "we win when people turn out" broke in this last election.
Democrats need to get off their ass and offer something better. The fact that Trump won so handily should be a damn wake up call that they are out of touch. Republicans message sucks ass, but it still beat the hell out of Democrats. The party leadership needs an overhaul because they are floundering and trotting out these old adages excuses how piss poor they've done leading the party.
Voter turn-out was low last election. Turns out drum circles with Oprah and other Hollywood sycophants while substituting all policy discussions with "uhh...JOY and ORANGE MAN BAD!" was not a winning strategy. If everyone is forced to vote you would see a lot of odd things. Most of them not great for either Republicans or Democrats, but ultimately healthy for a liberal state.
I would hope so. I think it would be the right thing to do. But I don't think Democrats would see all the "instant landslide wins" that are talked about. I don't think they can accurately predict how that will go. I just don't buy that the average non-voter is definitely voting Democrat.
But again - we should push for it because I think it's the right thing to do, not because I think it's good strategy.
"Why do you hate freedom?" :)
Look at the pushback on mandatory vaccinations...
I am all for mandatory voting in the US for everyone over the age of 18. Voting is not just a right but a civic duty and everyone should be required, and enabled, to carry it out.
As for those worried about paying for it take a percentage of every political donation/contribution to candidates, parties and PAC's and fund it with that.
Get paid $100 to vote
Vote or pay a hefty fine. I like that one better.
Not everyone needs a real ID, and you'd just be preventing poor citizens from voting.
Real ID is becoming a requirement for all state issued IDs. Let me see what the current deadline is:
May 7th.
https://www.oregon.gov/odot/dmv/pages/realidtraveler.aspx
"Do I need a REAL ID?
Yes, if you...
Are 18 and older and will travel in the U.S. by plane after May 7, 2025, without a valid passport.
Visit military bases, secure federal facilities or nuclear plants.
No, if you...
Have a star on your license, permit or ID (this means you already have a REAL ID).
Prefer to use an unexpired, government-issued passport for U.S. travel.
Do not travel the country by plane.
Do not visit military bases, secure federal facilities or nuclear plants.
Are under 18 years old. TSA does not require children under 18 to provide identification when traveling within the United States."
You are not forced to get a Real ID and can stick to a state only drivers license (if you want).
It's a requirement for those listed things.
So you only need it under certain conditions. It's not a requirement to vote. So most people don't need it, because the vast majority of people don't visit military bases, secure federal facilities, or travel via aircraft.
Voting is a fundamental right. You really want to make it so only people wealthy enough to fly places get to vote?
In California:
It costs thirty dollars.
Who wants to vote, but doesn't have thirty dollars? That's like three bananas.
And there are lower prices if you have low income.
And homeless people get them for free.
And ages 62+ get them for free.
You keep saying obstacles to voting like they are no big deal because they are no big deal to you. Voting is a fundamental right, and shouldn't be limited to people that share your privilege. Not everyone drives, not everyone has $30, not everyone wants to suffer the indignity of jumping through hoops to prove they are too poor to pay for an ID card, not everyone can take the time to go spend the day at the DMV getting an ID card, and NOBODY SHOULD HAVE TO DO IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Voting is a privilege that most people don't use. Yes Republicans are looking for ways to suppress votes, and I don't think you should need an ID to vote, but the idea that getting an ID is hard, is preposterous. You need an ID for like fucking everything.
No you fucking fascist it's a right, not a privilege
Felons can't vote, seems like a privilege to me.
They can in many places and should everywhere
Like I say, motor voter states already have the requirment, just make all states motor voter, flip to 100% vote by mail, and tell the Republicans "mission accomplished" and watch them lose their goddamned minds.
"Motor voter"? Like, drive-through balloting?
Automatic voter registration when getting or renewing a drivers license or ID card.
Not everybody who has the right to vote needs a driver's license or an ID card.
Everyone who wants a job, house, bank account, doctor, etc. etc. needs at least an ID card.
It's not possible to function in modern society without identification.
I can't tell if you're being deliberately obtuse or you really just can't see beyond your own lived experience. Either way, your worldview is problematic, and you're standing on the side of fascists.
Louisiana just declared a state of emergency over their aged license system, they're saying if you need to fly you might need 180 days to go through their accelerated program to get a real id
Getting a real ID isn't a requirement to register to vote at the DMV. You could also be there to get a regular ID, register your car, etc. This is how we do it in Oregon and we also have regular election offices too. The very people you're talking about are much more likely to visit the DMV at some point than visit an election office.
A lot of people don’t have IDs or licenses, they cost money, you have to take time off of work to get them, which also costs money, and a lot of people have barriers to getting ID if they lack supporting paperwork, like a birth certificate, bills in your name to prove address, three forms if ID, etc. heck lots of people don’t even have an address at all. People who don’t have easy access to supporting paperwork, who don’t have addresses, or can’t afford fees are all allowed to vote. This cuts a lot of the most vulnerable people in the country out of the democratic process, which is why the righties are always pushing for this stuff. They’d rather that the people who stand to lose the most from right wing policies be unable to vote against those policies.
I hear that argument a lot and I don't buy it. You need to have valid ID to do EVERYTHING in our society.
For example:
To get a job.
To get a bank account.
To file for unemployment benefits.
To see a doctor.
To drive legally.
To buy a car.
To rent a car.
To rent a hotel room.
To rent an apartment.
To buy a house.
To have insurance.
To file taxes.
To fill a prescription.
To buy alcohol.
To buy tobacco.
To enter a weed shop (where it's legal).
To buy M rated video games.
So you have to convince me that someone doesn't have ID, doesn't do ANY of that, and yet still somehow wants to vote?
I don't buy that argument, maybe a handful of people, maybe the Amish, but not enough people to matter in an election.
It is understandably difficult to believe these things when they are outside your realm of experience. These people exist, and in greater numbers than you are likely to realize, whether you believe that these people exist in great enough numbers to sway elections is neither here nor there. They have a right to vote and should be included (though it is worth noting that congressional elections are often decided by very narrow margins). There have been plenty of these people in the communities i’ve lived in, and at various periods in my life I’ve been one of these people. You’d be amazed at how you can get by without ID if you have to. A lot of the things you’ve listed don’t actually require a state issued ID, you might think they would, but there’s almost always a workaround. You don’t need it to get a job, only a decent job for a reputable employer. most will ignore legalities in my experience, if they think they can get away with it. You don’t need ID to fill a prescription, just your birth date. ID is not necessary to apply for benefits, most homeless people don’t have proper ID and are still eligible. ID is not necessary to buy a used car from the owner, nor to file taxes, nor to rent a sublet or a room in someone’s home. Lots of people don’t have bank accounts, they use cash or buy prepaid debit cards for things that you can’t pay with cash. You don’t need ID to visit a clinic, You ABSOLUTELY don’t need ID to go to a weed shop. I’ve visited many and have never been asked for one. Heck, I haven’t been carded for alcohol in probably 30 years. So yes, you can do most of these things without ID, it’s just a pain in the ass. Some of the things on your list are just luxuries. What you can’t do without ID you learn to live without, which now includes voting I guess.
Again, I really, sincerely doubt that and have seen no actual evidence to the contrary. Hypotheticals and mathematical models, but no actual evidence people are disenfrachised in this way.
We do have evidence that they are disenfrachised in OTHER ways, limiting polling locations, polling hours, blocking people from supporting voters in long lines with water, etc etc etc. All of which can be addressed with 100% vote by mail.
These aren’t hypotheticals my good man, these are real things that happen to real people. The fact that it hasn’t happened to YOU does not make them “hypothetical”. You’ve never seen a baby capybara, does that make baby capybara’s hypothetical?You don’t have any reason to believe what you do, it’s an article of faith, a belief maintained despite contradictory evidence. Something has fallen so far outside of the realm of your personal experience that you cannot fathom or accept it. You’re basically an economic flat earther, sure people have used “mathematical models” to determine that the earth is a sphere for thousands of years, but it sure looks flat to you. Sure people have used “mathematical models” to show that this sort of disenfranchisement exists, but you’ve never known a poor person, hence you have no reason to believe it exists. The thing that’s neat about reality is that it’s real whether you choose to look at it or not. by recent estimates 11% of eligible voters don’t have adequate ID (via. Brennen Law Institute) and as many as 18% of eligible voters over the age of 65 (via. the American Bar Association), with low income and minority groups being disproportionately affected. You can choose to verify those numbers, or not, you can choose to believe the numbers you’ve verified, or not, either way it doesn’t impact the realities that people, who are not you, face. Personally I have faith that you will continue to believe whatever you find most comforting. my only question is this, if you do not value the accounts of those affected, nor the word of experts who study such things, and you do not trust statistics or “mathematical models”, then how short of actually experiencing it yourself would you know whether it is true or not?
The hypothetical is "ZOMG thousands of people are being prevented from voting over this!"
No, they aren't. There's no evidence that thousands of people are so disengaged from society that they don't have legal ID, all the things they need legal ID for, and yet somehow still want to vote.
There's ANECDOTAL evidence, one person here, another person there, a 98 year old lady who really wants to vote but gosh darn it her birth certificate burned up in a fire in 1946, but no evidence there is mass disenfranchisement.
The numbers claiming "millions" are based on statistics, not actual reality, and when you have to have basic ID to get a job, have a bank account, rent a place, etc. etc. etc. I do not buy the "millions" number and I do not buy that they are that detached from society and still have a desire to vote.
who cares if it's as low as 50 people? if they have the right to vote, imposing a new requirement for no good reason which prevents even just 50 people from voting is a violation of their rights.
there's no need for it. it suppresses likely democratic voters while republicans are the ones who always push for this voter ID garbage. and you, apparently.
it's blatant intentional voter suppression.
It isn't voter suppression. Again, look at a blue state that tied voter registration to state ID:
https://www.opb.org/article/2024/12/26/oregon-voter-turnout-dropped-75-percent-2024-election/
"Since 2012, the last election before the new system, the percentage of eligible Oregonians registered to vote has increased from 75% to 94%."
Registrations are up.
Look at the election turnout in Oregon compared to national turnout since enabling motor voting in 2016:
2016 - 80.33% vs. 59.2%
2018 - 67.8% vs. 53.4%
2020 - 78.5% vs. 65.3%
2022 - 66.9% vs. 46.8%
2024 - 75% vs. 63.4%
Turnout is up. Nobody is being disenfrachised here, more people are registered, more people are participating. All of that TERRIFIES Republicans.
Sources:
https://sos.oregon.gov/elections/Documents/Voter_Turnout_History_General_Election.pdf
https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/statistics/data/voter-turnout-in-presidential-elections
https://ballotpedia.org/Election_results,_2022:_Analysis_of_voter_turnout
I've known people that worked under the table for cash. People that sublet apartments or that rented a room from someone with an extra. These people don't need IDs to function. I'm guessing they had ids but not all of them drove, so I don't even know.
Most of what you mentioned here just requires an SSN or TIN which is easier to get than a drivers license or Real ID.
It happens more than you think. When I was in my early 20’s I was a traveling hippy and my driver’s license expired. I didn’t have the 25$ to get a new license in the state I moved to, I literally had zero dollars lol.
I found a local nonprofit justice center that paid the 20$ I needed.
Without that ID I couldn’t get a job or pay any bills or do much of anything. Transitioning from being a poor vegan hobbler (basically a homeless person, but I was in my early 20’s) to a person with an apartment and job and everything else needed for that was one of the most difficult and tedious things I’ve ever done.
For folks with less mental faculties, poor families just getting by, etc I can absolutely see how fulfilling these proposed restrictions on voting would be difficult to impossible.
You do not need ID to buy alcohol / tobacco, at least in California and Texas.
The rule is that you can't sell to a minor. Different forms of ID would work, but even then, if you know they're old enough you don't need to ask.
Maybe other things on the list are more complex too / have gray area.
Must not be the "We ID under 40" states.
Here, you can't turn around without ID.
No. Absolutely not. What you're describing is a Republican voter suppression tactic. It benefits Republican candidates, and Republicans have been admitting that for almost a decade.
https://www.cnn.com/2016/04/06/politics/glenn-grothman-voter-id-wisconsin-republican-2016/index.html
Oregon, a blue state, like super blue, sapphire blue, the bluest blue that ever blue, has been doing this since 2016.
your point being?
The point being motor voting and vote by mail works, even if it is tied to a state ID and it's not a Republican thing.
Look at the election turnout in Oregon compared to national turnout since enabling motor voting in 2016:
2016 - 80.33% vs. 59.2%
2018 - 67.8% vs. 53.4%
2020 - 78.5% vs. 65.3%
2022 - 66.9% vs. 46.8%
2024 - 75% vs. 63.4%
Sources:
https://sos.oregon.gov/elections/Documents/Voter_Turnout_History_General_Election.pdf
https://www.opb.org/article/2024/12/26/oregon-voter-turnout-dropped-75-percent-2024-election/
"Since 2012, the last election before the new system, the percentage of eligible Oregonians registered to vote has increased from 75% to 94%."
https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/statistics/data/voter-turnout-in-presidential-elections
https://ballotpedia.org/Election_results,_2022:_Analysis_of_voter_turnout
It’s not that easy to get a Real ID. I struggled to get one because I’ve been moving a lot lately and they require a bunch of documents pointing to the same residential address. I was only able to get one after I settled down long enough to meet that requirement.
You need 2 documents as proof of address. So a utility bill + something else. Electric bill + phone bill. Done. Credit card + internet. Done.
They wanted 3 documents. There was a typo in the copy of my lease I was able to get (previous year) so I couldn’t use that. I was sharing a phone plan and it was under someone else’s name. Electricity and internet were included in rent.
Then you talk to your landlord and fix your lease, super easy.
I know you've recieved a lot of replies already, but the major issue with your plan is you would have to do this every election cycle. A lot of IDs get replaced between 4 and 22 years, not annually.
The way it works here is you register when getting a drivers license, then if you move or something, when you update your DL information, you update your voter registration.
Same thing for DL renewals and such.
See thats exactly what the executive order prevents. You can't be registered automatically, a person would have to provide proof of citizenship every election cycle if this gets enforced.
Proof of citizenship is part of the drivers license process now.
So you would need to renew your drivers license every single election cycle, I just explained that like 3 comments ago.
No, once you're registered, you need do nothing else unless your address changes. Just like with a normal voter registration.
Alright but thats not a solution to the problem presented, and even has little to nothing to do with the topic of this post.
The problem presented is Republicans being dicks by requiring citizenship to vote.
We already solve that problem by:
This increases voter registration (which Republicans don't want) an increases voter participation (which Republicans DEFINITELY don't want.)
Oregon had already been doing #3 since 2000, they added #1 and #2 in 2016.
Voter registration surged to 94%.
Voter participation jumped to 80%.
This is malicious compliance with what the Republicans are asking for.
Then people would need to renew their drivers license every election, sometimes multiple times per year. That's why any compliance with this shitty order a bad idea, it would lower turnout. I already told you that.
What Oregon did was automatically mail everyone a ballot unless they opted out, but under the new executive order, if enforced, that would be deemed illegal/unlawful unless each and every eligible voter registered and provided physical proof of citizenship at that time, which is logistically impossible at that scale.
I'm going to stop replying to you, enjoy sending me the last word in short order.
Well, the problem is Republicans being dicks, which is kind of a given.
But if the country does what Oregon has been doing for years, you tie voter registration to state ID and suddenly 94% of those eligible are registered to vote, and with vote by mail, 80% are turning out.
At which point the Republicans get what they want and still have heart attacks.
If they making obtaining a verified id free, sign me up. Forcing citizens to spend money to exercise their right to vote sounds illegal. I'm not an expert, do not quote me, just my thoughts.
would that include a ride to the DMV that might be unreachably far away?
would that include forcing all DMV locations to remain open 7 days a week and until late at night, so folks who have to work earlier and later than their DMV' business hours could actually participate?
would it include the costs of replacing other required documents if lost, like birth certificate or social security card?
would it reimburse lost money from having to take unpaid time off of work to go get this "free" ID?
would it compel employers to give workers time off, so workers whose employers deny them even unpaid time off have some legal protection?
In some states that have mobile DMV events where they come to local towns to help people sign up that can not easily get to the department directly.
Maybe maybe it possible to sign up for the free id at local government offices or libraries.
Just thoughts.
