3w ago

It's Just A Transition!

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What tf has the United States stood for, if not colonialism, racism and genocide?
I'm glad USAians are starting to despise their country as much as the rest of the world now that it's starting to happen to them, but please keep the lusting after the good ol days that never existed to the boomers.
- Why is lemmy filled with this?
  What do you want from this interaction?
  Do you want them to feel shame for not seeing the truth you've seen? What are you trying to accomplish?
  Things are bad. Things are getting worse. People are learning this in real time, and the endless commentary of "it always has been" and "nothing's new" is not helpful or productive. It doesn't even make sense. People are coming around to your point of view - that things are bad. Maybe, as they learn why and how things are bad, they will learn about some of the things that have always been bad, but they won't learn it from a comment like this.
  Things are bad. Things are getting worse. We don't need more cynicism and apathy. We need to help people understand that things are bad, and things are getting worse.
  
  What do you want from this interaction?
  Presumably, making people understand that the US (and western Europe) represent the most evil shit imaginable in the past 5 centuries including essentially the genocide of the entire continent of America and the colonisation of the entirety of south america, Africa and most of Asia, and that at no point was it worth dying for.
  
  Presumably, making people understand that the US (and western Europe) represent the most evil shit imaginable in the past 5 centuries including essentially the genocide of the entire continent of America and the colonisation of the entirety of south america, Africa and most of Asia, and that at no point was it worth dying for.
  Would it have been worth dying to fight against it? South Americans, Africans, Asians... do you believe they had right and reason to oppose western aggression? Up to and including warfare? Genuine question. I think there's an argument to be made there.
  I ask because, well... this you?
  The war will end with negotiations, the negotiations will most likely end up being unfortunate for Ukrainian interests and beneficial to the Russian government, and the 3 years of meat grinder could have been avoided if negotiations had happened from the start.
  Western societies have often commited great evil in the name of colonial expansion and tyranny over foreign nations - we agree!
  But... also Ukraine should give up? And the west should let Russia have Ukraine - in fact should have let Russia take Ukraine years ago - because people shouldn't die fighting a war against a tyrant expanding their territory? They should just negotiate in the face of unchecked aggression by a hostile superpower?
  How did negotiations go for the Native Americans?
  Either oppose tyranny, colonialism, and genocide across the board, or don't. I'm not interested in this half-assed tankie bullshit that one group of political superpowers can be the root of all evil, while another group should be appeased and negotiated with for doing the same shit.
  
  Sorry, in the future I'll be more respectful of people who say they'll defend colonialism, racism and genocide with their lives.
  
  "I was once willing to give my life for what I believed my country stood for" [emphasis mine]
  Past tense. They did not say they will defend colonialism, racism, or genocide with their lives. They said they believed their country stood for different things, and now they know differently.
  This isn't about respect or civility. It's about productivity and purpose. I'm not telling you to play nice. I'm asking you to try to help people understand your point of view when they're clearly in the process of changing their mind about how the world works. It's an opportunity to spread awareness and you're wasting it on snark and pointless cynicism.
  
  You must have interpreted the image differently because to me it very much sounds like they're saying things used to be good and now the country became bad. In fact, that's the word being used.
  And, frankly, I'm tired of people singing praises of the good old days when they melted the skin off of children in Cambodia and sent death squads to South America. I don't care what they think they were fighting for, the onus of not loving genocide is on them.
  
  I don't interpet it differently.
  I am telling you that as they realize things are currently bad, you can help them realize the ways in which things have always been bad. That the fact that current affairs are even possible suggests a progression of events leading up to this, rather than a sudden and reversible shift in political paradigms.
  The whole point is that they don't know what you know. If you want them to know what you know, help them understand it.
  If instead you want people to continue believing what they currently believe, than yes, cynicism and snark is the way to go. Thanks for the contribution.
  
  Alright, I'll follow your lead and inform people the United States has always stood for those things, but also not tell anyone that the United States stands for those things cause they might get mad and become even more racist.
  
  If instead you want people to continue believing what they currently believe, than yes, cynicism and snark is the way to go. Thanks for the contribution.
- Note that the meme doesn't talk about what the United States stood for
- We kind of hoped we were turning over a new leaf. Nope, same fucking leaf. Same rotting monetary elite underneath it all.
- It has also stood for resisters, runaways, rebellion, race traitors, class traitors, communist, unionists, socialists, militant farming communities, civil rights protestors, suffregettes, panthers, occupiers, standing rock, bros and whatever comes next to drag this country into something slightly better and closer to its written ideals.

52 comments