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Kinda a false equivalency, no? There's a lot more history and tradition steeped in something like Christmas/Yule than Valentine's Day, unless you're suggesting we should call it a feast day in honor of the St Valentine or w/e.
You can celebrate some holidays in a traditional, non-commercialized manner. There's not really a way to celebrate Valentine's Day without consumerism.
Edit: As many are trying to point out, yes you can show your love to your SO without consumerism. You should be doing it everyday. If anyone has any ideas on how to go above and beyond to demonstrate your commitment to a person without going out/giving a gift/dressing especially fancy, I'm all ears.
I can think of quite a few ways to show love w my S.O. without consumerism.
Also, I don't see any false equivalence, just because it's been around longer doesn't make Christmass any less made up.
There's a clear difference between the traditions behind Christmas/Yule and the purely capitalism-driven Valentine's Day sales event.
There's a clear difference between the longstanding traditions behind Christmas/Yule and the capitalism-driven Valentine's Day sales event. And we all know it.
Yes, like jolly old Santa Claus dressed up in his red and white suit as popularized by... Coca Cola in the ‘30s. You’re right, Christmas is totally different than Valentine’s Day.
It was celebrated for hundreds (or even thousands) of years before coke existed. Valentines day wasn't.
Tell you what, how about you go google “The Feast of St. Valentine” and then we’ll pick this conversation back up. Sound good?
Hey, sounds good. Firstly I'd like to say there's no real need to be so snarky. Even if we disagree, we should be able to have an engaging chat online without being rude. I don't think anything I said was rude in that way, and if it seemed so I apologize. I'm easygoing, but if you want to convince people of your perspective, they might not always want to listen to what you have to say if you treat them like idiots.
Secondly, I did Google it. And according to that, around 500AD Valentines day was originally established to honor the Saint, and then over the middle ages evolved into a more general celebration of romance. So, I'll give it to you that it wasn't just recently invented by Hallmark.
However, I still maintain that I was correct. Obviously Christmas is now a nightmare of capitalism too, but a Christmas/Yule/Saturnalia/whatever celebration is both older, more steeped in real tradition, and has more meaning than the modern concept of Valentines, which is literally just about selling cards and flowers and jewelry. But I guess that's subjective.
Secondly, I did Google it. And according to that, around 500AD Valentines day was originally established to honor the Saint
Yes. So your claim that Christmas has been "celebrated for hundreds (or even thousands) of years before coke existed. Valentine's Day wasn’t." is incorrect. We're done here.
OK, deal. You were more right and I was more nice, and it seems like that matches what we both wanted, so let's take it as a win
Wanna know how I know you didn't read that? Because it doesn't disagree with me. Coca Cola popularized the modern depiction of Santa Claus.
One might therefore fairly grant Coca-Cola some credit for cementing the modern image of Santa Claus in the public consciousness, as in an era before the advent of television, before color motion pictures became common, and before the widespread use of color in newspapers, Coca-Cola's magazine advertisements, billboards, and point-of-sale store displays were for many Americans their primary exposure to the modern Santa Claus image. But at best what Coca-Cola popularized was an image they borrowed, not one they created.
Notice how I didn't say they created it, nor did I say they invented it? I said they popularized it.
The basic point was that all holidays are made up. To suggest that xmass is less of a cash grab consumer fest than valentine's day is insane.
You dont see valentine's day advertised in January, around here xmass starts the day after Halloween.
I don't think Christmas is less of a cash grab per se, just that there's at least some spirit under it, while (modern) VDay seems to be pretty purely consumerist
Edit: As many are trying to point out,
Just to be clear, by “many” you mean two. Two people replied to you… now it’s three.
Hey do you want to believe in a world where your post gets more traction and more people comment, or do you wanna believe in a world where those two are the only ones who would comment on it going forward?
Me and my partner are going to a potluck with friends because our love should be shared with people we hold dear but that’s just us I guess.
At some point in history it was known as feast of Saint Valentines, so pot luck is probably a pretty solid way to celebrate.
Hey, that's a cool way to celebrate, and technically the most traditional. It's not the way people typically refer to Valentines Day, but I hope you can keep that tradition going.
Valentines day has a quiet a bit of history too though.
Some people believe that Valentine's day only came to be because of lupercalia, witch was a festival.
Look, if people wanna start sacrificing goats again and doing feasts, I'm all in. Hell yea, sounds great. The problems I have with Valentine's Day are with the commercialization of love, which is how it's been celebrated for hundreds of years. If you wanna celebrate in a non-traditional way, I've no real beef with you, because you're not really celebrating the problematic parts.
Oh I don't really celebrate Valentine's Day, I was just pointing out it has quite a bit of history. Though having a big feast in the middle of February sounds kinda fun I might start doing that.
Some other user mentioned going with their SO to a potluck with friends as their celebration, and that sounds like such a better way to celebrate than all our overcommercialized bullshit. I think our ancestors were right, big February feast is the way forward.
Don't be so cynical, and the value you put on tradition is an entirely personal thing. Valentines day has been celebrated for hundreds of years as well so it's by definition a tradition.
We spread out days throughout the year to put emphasis on the people who are dear to us, ofcourse we should show them every single day, but it's not a bad thing to highlight a day of the year.
And since you've decided it's only about consumerism, let me give you a few ways to go above and beyond for you partner without having to resort to consumerism:
- Learning a skill related to your SO
- Revisiting a place or activity you enjoyed together, maybe throw in a well prepared picnic
- Growing your own flowers in advance
- Cooking a meal which is difficult and high effort to make
The amount of value placed in a day like today depends on relationship, but saying it's only about consumerism is such a big cop-out.
I disagree with your last sentence, but not the rest of the comment. Plenty of ways to celebrate your SO without spending. It's easier to celebrate without consumerism than Christmas or New Years for that matter.
I would argue that you should be celebrating your SO daily, so for most of my relationships the only way to go beyond and make a day special is to involve gifts/going out.
Couldn’t you make the same argument for any holiday?
You can’t celebrate Christmas without gifts because you should be spending all your time with your family so getting together and spending time together doesn’t count.
Seems like you’re just redrawing the lines to protect your argument, all holidays can be celebrated in a fairly noncommercial way because the theme of them is basically “spend time together”.
I don't know about you, but Yule is typically when I spend time with my extended family, who I do not see every day. We all bring a meal to a communal potluck, and spend time hanging out and catching up on how people have been doing for the past year. Probably the most consumerist part is that we put the same movie on the center TV every year to have in the background.
So no, I'd argue you can't make the same argument for a lot of holidays.
we put the same movie on the center TV every year to have in the background.
Is it The Big Lebowski? If I had a big extended family I'd totally put that on.
Nah, it's A Christmas Story because we're a bunch of Indiana yokels, and the grandparents like how it reminds them of their childhood. I've always wanted to do like a Lord of the Rings marathon, but I don't host so not my choice.
Fair enough then :)