deepseek

As if US based (or any large scale) AI models aren't already going bad?

Oh, no definitely they do. I just have a especially strong mistrust to this one.
Like this is at 4,9/5 on the Mistrust scale where the others linger by 4,5/5.
- It's open source and you can just run it yourself without the restrictions on the app...
  
  The fact it’s open source and can be run isolated from a network is reassuring—but not everyone can do that, and there’s no guarantee the version you’re using online is identical to the open source version. I think caution with the online version is pretty warranted.
  
  I think caution with the online version is pretty warranted.
  It applies to online versions in general.
  
  I'm not saying everyone will run this at home, but good open source models democratize the access to AI. More companies around the world can deploy them. I think it's also good to have models from outside the US to avoid American bias in the models themselves.
  
  Okay but I won't. I will just not use it.
  
  OK, that was always allowed.
- Fair. All of the big ones have some level of filters. In the US it's not regulated so the censorship/filtering is determined by the company providing the service. Those companies have business relations in both countries. I'm unsure the extent or how much any Chinese company might have with American business. In any case, both have the capability to collect your data and I'm of the opinion they do despite any claims of privacy. Furthermore, there's no tech company as large as these players without government funding via contracts.
  Using AI is at a bare minimum as insecure as using Google/Bing search pre-AI era. Again my opinion is that it's dangerously less so, whether Chinese or American.
  To that extent i personally can't imagine why China having your data is less secure than the US unless you're in a position of political importance to the US (government office/job/contractor) or running a large business with the capability to influence the US government through lobbying/media/etc...
  FWIW I personally avoid AI in every way i know how to.
  Just so i'm not called a tankie, I don't trust the CCP for anything other than cheap exploitative labor.
  
  In any case, both have the capability to collect your data
  Except they released the model; you can run it on your own machine. Unlike OpenAI, they literally don't have the capability to collect your data.

spying

ChatGPT was only released as SaaS, every thing you use it for goes through OpenAI's servers.

Deepseek was open-sourced, you can run it on a local machine where it is physically impossible for China to spy on you.

They also released how they trained Deepseek, so you could even make your own Deepseek, as these guys are doing.

Very informative read, thank you. Lets wait for Openb-R1 to be able for download, and use that time to check the machine's code for bugs (likely, every larger software has them!), backdoors (can never be excluded as a possibility), and ways of further optimization.
I have to admit that their idea to "milk" DeepSeek-R1 for its own reasoning data is intriguing. I wonder how early in that training process the political bias has gotten its foot into the door. Or is this a late-stage filter?
- just like for american models, the political bias is irrelevant. Realistically you are using the model for its reasoning capabilities, not its answer to "what happened in Tiananmen".
  
  I don't agree with the point that an artificially induced bias is in any way irrelevant. And the tales of "reasoning" capabilities are quite overblown, imho.
Of course chatgpt is saas, because it's a service built on top of a gpt model, which they made public
- The ChatGPT4 model is not public.
  
  That's the point.
  
  Roflmasterbigpimp accused the Chinese company of spying.
  I pointed out that the Chinese company can't spy becaause it's model was open source and could be locally run, while the US company set up its operation to allow it to spy on any use of its model.
  Mubelotix claimed ChatGPT made their model public, which would only be relevant to the conversation as a evidence that the US is not spying either.
  I said the model isn't public.
  
  Well, there is an Android client that sends keystrokes (and loads of other data) back to Chinese servers. Which very much fulfils my definitions of spying.
  
  The app uses Deepseek's servers. It physically could not function if it didn't send your input data to their servers.
  What other data does it send?
  
  It is not about sending just the prompt. It's about sending keystrokes, which goes beyond input to the current app.
  
  Keystrokes you put into the app is useful for the devs to understand user intentions. But you saaid "loads of other data".
  Answer by question first, what "loads of other data"? Did you just make that up?
  
  There was another post today listing all the permissions the app needs/wants/requires. It was amazingly long.
- Post link to GPT3 or GPT4 model download

Remember, America also has a despicable record of spying and manipulating.

Yes but what's a few overthrown democratically elected governments between vassal states?
- Classic Tankie Behaviour.
  If anyone ever says anything bad about China what follows is usually "USA BAD TOO! LOOK USA BAD!" and the funny thing is you are right.
  The USA have done,is doing and will be doing horrendous things but that does not excuse what China is doing, has done and will be doing.
  Is it really that hard to understand that you don't need to pick a "Camp"?
  Don't bother answering me, I value my time to much to talk through all of this again.
  
  No you are wrong. The USA doing things is not an excuse for China doing things it's just me calling out favoritism. In your comment you decided that the USA doing bad things is acceptable and the China doing bad things is not and that is mentally feeble.
  If you don't want people to respond to you don't say ironically stupid things.
And when you can please quote where I denied that, that would really help.
- You specifically focused on China. Change your statement to "China and America" and we're good.

Deepseek is open source. People have looked it over and modified it a ton. If you are hosting it yourself there is no indication of it being Spyware or whatever.

If you blindly use someone else's server you are willingly giving up your days to them. Facebook has sold user data to forging companies, yet people like you have a hate boner for china.

I have no love lost for either government, especially at the moment when my rights are being threatened and trampled by my own. Between the two, China has no power to effect my life directly.

Regardless, there probably was some state help behind the development of deepseek, but that isn't relevant to the discussions of the tech and how western companies have been so stuck in their ways chasing short sighted profits at best or gifting at worst.

Either way, us companies have been missusing LLMs because they want to replace workers with them. That motivation isn't going to inspire a ton of innovation.

Ok, thank you I guess.

More so than the United States with the CIA are you serious?

If you went around the world and asked people who they trust more, the US, China, or Russia they would tell you they're all exactly the same.

Why do you care so much what I think about China?
- I don't. But it's fun to laugh at you