1y ago

Massive protests in Spain against the amnesty proposed by the socialist government.

www.elmundo.es Cientos de miles de personas se manifiestan en toda Espa�a contra la amnist�a: "No callaremos hasta que volvamos a votar. �Por qu� le tienen miedo a las urnas?"

Tras casi diez d�as de protestas por toda la geograf�a nacional y a las puertas de la investidura de Pedro S�nchez, el Partido Popular invoca el rugido de la calle. Cientos de...

Cientos de miles de personas se manifiestan en toda Espa�a contra la amnist�a: "No callaremos hasta que volvamos a votar. �Por qu� le tienen miedo a las urnas?"

The socialist party, which secured the second-largest number of votes in the recent elections, has finalized an accord with separatist groups to ensure their support in the upcoming investiture vote. This agreement includes a disputed amnesty law that has been criticized by legal experts as unconstitutional.

In 2017, catalan separatists held an illegal referendum resulting in a sharp political crisis in Spain. The central figures who orchestrated the coup and remained in Spain were sentenced to prison, while Carles Puigdemont, the ringleader of the secessionist movement, fled the country, avoiding arrest.

In a controversial political maneuver, Pedro Sánchez, the Socialist Party candidate lacking a parliamentary majority, struck a deal with the absconded Puigdemont. The agreement ensures Puigdemont will evade prosecution in exchange for supporting Sánchez's bid for the presidency. The Socialist Party has introduced an amnesty proposal that would pardon the separatist leaders, which is a political exchange to secure Sánchez's position as Spain's president.

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I couldn’t find what the issue was here. Amnesty for who, for what?
- In 2017, catalan separatists held an illegal referendum resulting in a sharp political crisis in Spain. The central figures who orchestrated the coup and remained in Spain were sentenced to prison, while Carles Puigdemont, the ringleader of the secessionist movement, fled the country, avoiding arrest. In a controversial political maneuver, Pedro Sánchez, the Socialist Party candidate lacking a parliamentary majority, struck a deal with the absconded Puigdemont. The agreement ensures Puigdemont will evade prosecution in exchange for supporting Sánchez's bid for the presidency. The Socialist Party has introduced an amnesty proposal that would pardon the separatist leaders, which is a political exchange to secure Sánchez's position as Spain's president.
  
  Anytime someone tells you a vote is illegal and tries to imprison you for it is just proving you should do it and why.
  Now, if they want to just ignore it, okay fair enough, plenty of situations where that's a reasonable response, but this debacle is clearly Spain working out some Franco still in the system.
  
  It was a very poorly done referendum with many people voting multiple times and others not voting because they didn't recognize their validity.
  Putting aside the fact that Catalonia independence is Brexit levels of stupid, It has been used by their politicians to blackmail the government for more funding. Catalonia is a rich and privileged region compared to the rest of Spain.
  The amnesty will also cancel debt of all autonous communities of Spain, which disproportionately benefits Catalonia, the community with more debt.
  Many protesters are fascist POS, but this time they are right (for the wrong reasons).
  
  It doesn't matter why they want to leave, short of preserving slavery anyways.
  It matters that Spain persecuted them for organizing a vote on it.
  
  Public money does matter though. I'm fine with Catalan people having their own culture, in fact i'd prefer Spain to be more decentralized, but anyone thinking this is about culture and not about money is not paying attention.
  
  Things can have more than one motivation, and you either believe in democratic principles of self determination or you don't.
  With the threat of the return of Spanish fascism in Vox, I don't blame anyone for wanting to bounce, and if there's a region that has been burned for trusting their "countrymen" it's Catalonia.
  
  What may not be as clear as it could be in this thread is that the referendum was for whether or not Catalonia should secede from Spain. I doubt that there is any country that would be okay with one of its states (in the most generic sense of that word) voting to secede. In fact, I know of one country that fought a bloody war over it.
  
  Regardless of the actual reasons behind the American Civil War, it was actually the Confederacy that fired the first shot, and it was, and is, perfectly legal for states to hold referendums on seceding.
  Actually doing that without Congress's approval is a different question, but even slavery era America wouldn't imprison someone (white) for taking a glorified poll.
  Like in any civilized nation that didn't have a fascist dictator that died of old age, one who singled out Catalonia for cultural and political repression, mind you.
  
  Thank you for that. Sounds low.
  
  Wait a minute, usually a coup is done with guns and threat of violence, right? Are you telling me in Spain the coup was done using... illegal referendum?! Where can I read more about this?
  
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1938_Austrian_Anschluss_referendum
- I'm completely ignorant of Spain's politics but after my 10min google investigation, because I'm curious, I found that apparently the current prime minister is negotiating some votes from a Catalan political party so that he can be reelected.
  In exchange they ask for 'amnesty' with which to delete all their criminal records for the illegal 2017 secession referendum, which would mean forgiveness of the crime, as if it had not occurred. With this some party members who fled from justice would be able to return to Spanish territory.
  There are also a bunch of financial deals but the amnesty thing is the one that makes the news.
  
  Thank you for researching and explaining.
  
  On point.
- Mostly for Catalan separatists. And the protesters are extreme right wingers... it's weird.

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