For 30 years, a memorial to Nazi collaborators sat largely unnoticed just outside Philadelphia. Now it’s drawing outrage.
For 30 years, a memorial to Nazi collaborators sat largely unnoticed just outside Philadelphia. Now it’s drawing outrage.
Elkins Park in Montgomery County has several synagogues ... and one large monument to Nazi collaborators. Many people had no idea it existed until recently.
You're viewing a single thread.
-
All nazi/confederate monuments should be taken down.
-
The only place they belong, if any, is in a museum.
-
More confederate monuments were built in 1999 than in 1869. The year with the most confederate monuments built was 1911, 46 years after the end of the war. That's like as if there were now a sudden spree of building Vietnam War monuments everywhere.
Confederate monuments were overwhelmingly built during the Jim Crow era. The Daughters of the Confederacy built most of them as part of their revisionist lost cause project, trying to write slavery out of the war. Then there was also a lot of them built during the civil rights era, to send a message to civil rights activists.
Sure, it's worth saving a few of them to put into places like the Jim Crow Museum of Racist Memorabilia, the National Civil Rights Museum, America's Black Holocaust Museum, or the National Civil War Museum. But there's many more monuments than appropriate museums for them. Getting rid of the least historically s significant ones isn't a big issue.
-
Gotta back urinals with something.
-
This one was only erected 30 years ago. It hardly qualifies for a museum.
-
that would be a really boring museum
-
You're thinking about a circus. Not your fault, that's really where most conservative politicians belong.
-
-
-
This particular kind of Nazi collaborators is actually all the rage now, since Western public has found THE conflict of our age in Russia's invasion of Ukraine, immediately conveniently forgetting all other conflicts and genocides going on where every Western power has consistently shat its pants. I'm pleasantly surprised that there is, in fact, outrage at this.
In Russian-speaking (those supposedly liberal) parts of Reddit everybody would be justifying this memorial. Cause most of people you'd consider liberal in Russia and Ukraine are in fact disgusted with Putin etc mostly because of weakness and lack of development and corruption.
Not because of any crimes, plenty of them support ethnic cleansing (say, supporting Russian central government against Chechnya is not cool anymore among them, but for most it was like 10 years ago) and even military aggression (say, Azeri aggression against Artsakh). They just want those things to look cool, and Putin's empire of decay, theft, incompetence and general despair is not what they'd like to see.
You know, a bit like people from Hungary/Poland/Baltics just love to say that Soviets were "worse than Nazis", and have that slightly hidden irritation at being reminded that there are Jewish people in the room.
-
to be fair, the soviets, especially after Stalin took over, were indistinguishable from fascists.
-
The cult of tradition. soviet iconography literally everywhere
-
The rejection of modernism. modernism is after all the spawn of the western capitalist.
-
The cult of action for action’s sake.
-
Disagreement is treason. off to the gulags with the dissident.
-
Fear of difference. other than them having created some of the most racist groups in Europe...
-
Appeal to social frustration.
-
The obsession with a plot. fucking anti-revolutionary on every corner!
-
The enemy is both strong and weak. just look at the propaganda.
-
Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy. second verse, same as the first.
-
Contempt for the weak. the modern soviet man.
-
Everybody is educated to become a hero. and sacrifice yourself for the revolution
-
Machismo and weaponry. have you seen the soviet leaders? or their weaponry on display everywhere?
-
Selective populism. literally deporting ethnic groups because they might create a contrary populist opinion.
-
Ur-Fascism speaks Newspeak.
I invite you to fill out the remainder 3, 6, 14
-
Nice to see somebody who likes Eco`s definition, but that'd be circular logic - his Ur-Fascism criteria were a result of optimization based on a selection of axiomatically fascist regimes, Stalin's explicitly included. (Sorry for this sentence being clumsy)
Also Stalin's regime became much more fascist in the middle of war and immediately after it. As an attempt to counter the "national liberation" offering of Nazis, with their national legions etc. So all the republics' anthems are quite pretentious and proud, and Soviet propaganda in the middle of war also turned to nationalism from just revolution and communism and globalism.
About your invitation - well, 3 and 6 are actually not so easy for me. I'd say these were present before Stalin, as in 3 would be basic Bolshevism, and 6 would be basic Marxism. 14 - see my first paragraph, it was (for Orwell) first and foremost inspired by USSR, and while Nazis or Italian fascists also had distinct public language (Klemperer's Lingua Tertii Imperii comes to mind), they never went as far.
-
well it's not circular, it’s definition, for example, the Armenian Genocide fulfills every definition of a genocide, of course this was also the event that defined genocide
-
Yeah, I meant that it's a truism, it's not adding new information. I'm clumsy with words, sorry.
One person (similar for me to the one described as "hell on earth" in the Disco Elysium game) also advised me long ago to read "Homo Ludens" by Johan Huizinga, it approaches (not as the main subject, just in the end a bit, it was written in the 30s) the similarity between various fascist (including Stalin's) regimes from another direction - sublimation of games, as in imagining and playing and then abandoning games which involve fighting and loss. In addition to manifestations of the 30s noted by the author, one can also look at today's more militant and generally inhumane societies and see that they have consistent traits in relation to fantasy and sci-fi literature, and fairy tales, and anime and so on, and also that their representatives are often unable to honorably accept defeat in sports.
I feel that there's truth to that criterion.
-
-
-
And this is why I call tankies fascists. They are just fascists who disguise themselves with socialist populism. And guess what? It is something the Nazis did as well.
-
-
-
So leave it up because these weren't Nazis
-
what in tarnation are you talking about?
The monument, in a Montgomery County community known for its synagogues, is dedicated to the 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the Schutzstaffel — the Nazi military branch often referred to simply as “the SS.”
-
-