Nooooooo teh LiBz!?1

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Actually sweatie there's no difference between liberals and conservatives, Trump isn't doing anything the LIBS wouldn't have done and minorities are no worse off than they were before, also Bernie is controlled opposition and a shitlib
/s
- Actually sweatie
  
  actually sweatie
- Literally had me going…
- Can't tell if you're pretending to be maga or tankie
  
  Is there a difference?
  
  Tankies at least aren't as racist, I guess.
  
  Take a deeper look into the genocides the Communist countries did and are still doing. It's very uncommon that a genocide isn't racist.
  
  Yeah, you're right.
  
  Thank fuck there's some sense on this platform.
  Edit: 🤣 Lemmy never fails me!
- The libs who led us directly into fascism now have nothing to offer but sarcasm and condescension... Pretty typical. You forgot to blame the voters though.
- There is a difference between the Biden and Trump administrations. One is an overt Nazi, the other is a Nazi collaborator.
- Here I go again, taking the bait.
  Trump put the lie to the Democrats' claims about wanting to end the war in Gaza
  The Democrats would never dare to upset Capital like Trump just did. (Trump will of course always capitulate in the end as he has done here)
  Bernie is old and tired. He says a lot of the right things but he keeps trying to work within the fully captured DNC.
  Minorities in the imperial core are surely worse off. It remains to be seen if Trump's attacks on the soft power apparatus are sufficient to free the Global South from Western exploitation. (I am aware there is some actual aid in there with the labor suppression, coups and propaganda media. Both seem to be being dismantled)
  I doubt anyone could destroy USA's international prestige and credibility as quickly as Trump has
  
  Here I go again, taking the bait.
  Trump put the lie to the Democrats' claims about wanting to end the war in Gaza
  lolwut. The guy literally said that Israel should "finish the job".
  The Democrats would never dare to upset Capital like Trump just did. (Trump will of course always capitulate in the end as he has done here)
  Lina Kahn has left the room.
  Bernie is old and tired. He says a lot of the right things but he keeps trying to work within the fully captured DNC.
  Which is only fully captured because anti-electoralists/accelerationists approach to changing the party has been "we've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas".
  Minorities in the imperial core are surely worse off. It remains to be seen if Trump's attacks on the soft power apparatus are sufficient to free the Global South from Western exploitation. (I am aware there is some actual aid in there with the labor suppression, coups and propaganda media. Both seem to be being dismantled)
  "Cut one and we all bleed."
  I really think that "the imperial core" is pretty cringe, considering the imperialistic expansionist policies of the "AES" states (the big two are not socialist states). Both Russia and China are also driving hard on exploiting the global South and erosion of US soft power results in reducing checks on that as well as increasing the possibility of further hot wars.
  Adding to that, removal of funding for vaccination and other health initiatives is a net negative for the global South. Really seems that you're less supportive of developing nations and more just wanting the West to lose, even if it means everyone else in the world is wise off.
  
  Forget it, Jake. It's .ml town.
  
  Ok! First off, thanks for engaging instead of the ol' donvote-and-run
  The guy literally said that Israel should “finish the job”.
  Few things. First, don't confuse words with actions (ESPECIALLY with Trump). He got the ceasefire done before even taking office.
  Secondly, I definitely think he's a soulless ghoul who would sell out the Palestinians for any reason or no reason at all. The point in this argument is that he exposed the blatant dishonesty of the Democrats.
  Lina Kahn has left the room.
  Like - good for her and the Biden White House for nibbling around the edges. Good thing they actually passed laws and not just regulations that will get immediately dismantled when the pendulum swings. In America, CAPITAL ALWAYS WINS
  Which is only fully captured because anti-electoralists/accelerationists approach to changing the party has been “we’ve tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas”.
  Unfortunately this one is frankly ridiculous. You literally think the arrow of causation goes in that direction instead of people becoming disillusioned after trying to make change inside the party? People try to make change, discover Capital is in complete control, and abandon "civility".
  “Cut one and we all bleed.”
  I fully 100% endorse this statement. I lament the loss of lifesaving aid. I lament MORE the decades of self-determination that were stolen by the USA.
  I really think that “the imperial core” is pretty cringe, considering the imperialistic expansionist policies of the “AES” states (the big two are not socialist states).
  Are you an ultraleftist? Which countries have Capital on a leash and which countries are on Capital's leash? Think carefully before answering.
  Adding to that, removal of funding for vaccination and other health initiatives is a net negative for the global South.
  Sure, if we are only counting that I fully agree. We haven't even talked about the collapsing effect food aid has on local food economies.
  Really seems that you’re less supportive of developing nations and more just wanting the West to lose, even if it means everyone else in the world is wise off.
  I definitely want the West to lose, that's not in question. The better question is: Is the Global South suffering because the US just hasn't dropped enough rice out of C130s or because of decades of exploitation?
  
  In America, CAPITAL ALWAYS WINS>
  Pretty much sums up your entire philosophy and why no one takes tankies seriously. Literally leaving no room to discuss fixing America. You just want to destroy it which is clearly why you want Trump and will ignore every reasonable point. Stop being evil
  
  Rejecting capitalism doesn't equate to accepting authoritarianism, although many people seem to equate socialism with its authoritative flavor automatically.
  There are other possibilities, like basic socialism, anarchism, and communitarianism.
  
  Are you suggesting I equated the two? It seems you're the one relating the two. You're comment seems irrelevant to the point I'm making. I apologize if it I didn't make it clear: I'm anti tankie, not pro capitalist
  
  Pretty much sums up your entire philosophy and why no one takes tankies seriously.
  Per your original comment, yes. Pro communist tankies aren't the same as socialists. Wish more people wouldn't make that equation.
  It'd be like me saying that liberals are just MAGAts, when you clearly have different liberal factions like centrists and Social Democrats, and conservative factions like libertarians and fascists.
  
  Yes, wanting the destruction of America is a tankie belief. Socialism doesn't preclude the rehabilitation of America. I don't think you're following your own argument here. Are you trying to say all socialist call for the destruction of America? Cause that's not foundational to socialism. You seem confused
  
  Socialism doesn't preclude the rehabilitation of America.
  You and I agree on this. Abandoning capitalism doesn't mean America needs to be destroyed, and adopting socialism doesn't mean America can't be rehabilitated.
  I don't think you're following your own argument here.
  Your original claim refuted the view of the Original Commenter (OC) who thought capitalism always wins, or seeks to concentrate wealth and therefore power in the hands of the few despite the needs of the many. I don't want to assume what your views on capitalism are. Do you think we should keep it as an organization of the economy? Or are there better alternatives? Regulation on capitalism is not a solution imo. As we've seen with Trump and Bush, politicians can be bought out to represent corporate interests, and can install anti-regulation pundits to undermine progress.
  Are you trying to say all socialist call for the destruction of America?
  Quite the opposite. I'm saying I think you say all socialists call for the destruction of America because from how you've presented yourself, you don't recognize the variation in political philosophy on the left. My first comment to you tried to illuminate this variation by refuting your worldview that authoritarian, tankie communism applies to all forms of leftist ideologies, when there are others that don't include such levels of authority.
  I'm not trying to argue. I'm trying to educate.
  
  You probably shouldn't try to educate when you don't know what's going on.
  who thought capitalism always wins
  Yep I refuted that with multiple examples
  or seeks to concentrate wealth and therefore power in the hands of the few despite the needs of the many
  Nope, I said nothing about concentrating wealth. That's all you right now. Please stop trying to put words in my mouth. It's very weird.
  
  Pretty much sums up your entire philosophy and why no one takes tankies seriously.
  Do you think Capital ever loses in the US? Do you think it could ever lose in the future? How would that come about?
  Literally leaving no room to discuss fixing America.
  I mean it's really really bad. I don't personally think it can be fixed without first acknowledging the atrocious history and deep structural contradictions, but it sounds like you disagree?
  You just want to destroy it
  I mostly want the American imperial period to end which is a different thing.
  you want Trump
  For the record I didn't want him elected but I am quite amused by his bumbling teardown of the imperial project
  and will ignore every reasonable point.
  What reasonable point are you accusing me of ignoring?
  Stop being evil
  Evil is certainly in the eye of the beholder
  
  Do you think Capital ever loses in the US?
  The US literally started as a rebellion against the capital holders in England you dunce. Plantation owners of the South lost. Robber barons of the 1920s lost. There are countless incidents where does happen even if it's not enough. You need go touch grass if that's a genuine belief you have.
  I don’t personally think it can be fixed without first acknowledging
  Bullshit. You have zero interest in ever considering anything beyond "America bad".
  What reasonable point are you accusing me of ignoring?
  There's a post bringing up many that you just shrugged off already eg Dems supporting Lena Khan who made exceptional progress breaking up tech monopolies you clown.
  Evil is certainly in the eye of the beholder
  And the beholder would have to blind to think you are anything but a disingenuous monster that wants to push policy that hurts people. You're an accelerationist. You are evil.
  
  So much name-calling in this comment LOL.
  The US literally started as a rebellion against the capital holders in England you dunce. (Cheap insult 1)
  When Capital holders fight against each other, that's not the same as fighting against Capital. The local ruling class instigated the revolution and richly benefited from its results.
  Plantation owners of the South lost.
  Yes, I think this is one of the few examples in American history where "assets" (human being slaves in this case) were forcibly repatriated from the ruling class
  Robber barons of the 1920s lost.
  Yes, I believe that for all his other faults FDR faced down the fascist coup and actually did some progressive policies. The Democratic party has thoroughly squandered that legacy for 70 years
  There are countless incidents where does happen even if it's not enough. You need go touch grass if that's a genuine belief you have. (Cheap insult 2)
  Can you kindly tell me a substantial policy win that has weakened Capital in the last 70 years?
  Bullshit. You have zero interest in ever considering anything beyond "America bad".
  So you actually know what I believe and desire? How fascinating
  There's a post bringing up many that you just shrugged off already eg Dems supporting Lena Khan who made exceptional progress breaking up tech monopolies you clown. (Cheap insult 3)
  Pray tell what tech monopoly did she break up?
  And the beholder would have to blind to think you are anything but a disingenuous monster that wants to push policy that hurts people. You're an accelerationist. You are evil.
  This is just a lot of projection and backlash. It seems you have literally no idea what I believe or what my policy preferences are, yet you are more than happy to assign me MAXIMUM EVIL in your worldview. Do you think that could be because of the propaganda you have been subjected to your whole life?
  
  Yes I'm insulting. I think you're one of the worst people to exist right now. You've made your beliefs abundantly clear and I think your accelerationist beliefs aren't marginally better than white supremacists trying to start a race war. You do indeed support the "MAXIMUM EVIL". That does make you a dunce, a clown, a moron, an idiot. There's few insults that don't apply to you. And here you are moving the goal posts again because you are wrong. And to one so easily proven to someone engaging in genuine discourse. But because you are, again, a disingenuous troll, you're going hide behind your impossible qualifier "substantial". Lena Khan already won substantial wins against tech monopolies. Biden succeeded on limiting overdraft payments to $5 which is getting reversed by Trump, empowered unions, increased spending on enforcing labor laws, etc. Have you heard of the ACA? I'm sure that's still not "substantial" enough for you. And just like Trump, you're accusation is an admission. You are a garbage propagandist.
  
  Okay, just going to skip over the first part and all the insults and projection. Let's talk policy.
  Lena Khan already won substantial wins against tech monopolies.
  I couldn't find any evidence of this. I guess at least she tried to stop the Activision Microsoft merger?
  Biden succeeded on limiting overdraft payments to $5
  Sure, nice little policy win, doesn't even come close to touching the structural issues.
  empowered unions, increased spending on enforcing labor laws
  Yes, labor power is maybe the only hopeful thing going on in this country right now. Remember when Trump used the power of the federal government to forcefully break a rail strike? Oh wait that was actually Biden
  Have you heard of the ACA?
  I'm so exceptionally glad you brought this up, it's a perfect example. Which powerful interest in the healthcare industry lost power and money from this bill? All I see in an endless expanse of subsidies that prop up the existing system. If there was a public option included in the bill you might have a leg to stand on but we all know how that went.
  I'm sure that's still not "substantial" enough for you.
  Well yes, I'm not going to be very impressed with policies that just reinforce existing power structures, or do the right thing directionally but by a tiny amount, easily reversed.
  And just like Trump, you're accusation is an admission.
  What exactly is my accusation in your view?
  
  Cool so pretty much what I said would happen. And I'm sure you can figure that last one out if you read just one more sentence. Eat shit tankie I've already given far more attention than you deserve
  
  Yeah when they started name calling, it was pretty much over for their argument.
  Thanks for sticking up for yours and my point of view. There are many contradictions in our capitalist state, and it seems like people would rather be in denial of it than come to terms with it.
  
  Hey, thanks for saying I really appreciate it. It was definitely feeling like five on one for a second there. These threads can feel hopeless but it does seem like Capital is losing control of the narrative over the long term
  
  Less taking bait and more leaving bait.
  
  Interesting, what makes a comment "bait" in your view?
  
  List of statements that you know will piss people off and make them argue.
  
  And you are saying in your view that applies to my comment but not the comment I'm replying to?
  
  Yeah, I think the comment you replied to would be more accurately be called trolling. It wasn't specifically inviting a response, just being insulting.
  
  Ok, I think that's a fair enough description then. I found the caricature annoying and didn't want to leave it unanswered
  
  Trump did Capital a favor by A. Dismantling Consumer Protection Agencies B. Destroying regulations left and right C. Doing a 180 on coal and oil D. Dismantling labour laws
  Surely the dems are just as bad.
  Minorities in the Imperial core are worse off. Hey, at least you can acknowledge that
  Now, i am sure People in global south are happy about finally not having access to Aids medication or famine relief :) cool.
  Now they can just safely drop into the arms of Russian or Chinese Influence. Like we have seen in West Africa, where the situation for people has improved by exactly 0% since the dictators in power are now backed by Russia.
  Trump ended the war in Gaza? Funny, to my knowledge, the genocide is continuing.
  
  Trump did Capital a favor by A. Dismantling Consumer Protection Agencies B. Destroying regulations left and right C. Doing a 180 on coal and oil D. Dismantling labour laws
  I certainly agree that all those policies favor Capital.
  Surely the dems are just as bad.
  The Democrats haven't struck a real blow against Capital since FDR. The pattern is basically: they do something small with great fanfare, leave a bunch of carve outs for friendly interests, then roll over once there is any resistance. I invite you to provide a counter example from the past 70 years
  Minorities in the Imperial core are worse off. Hey, at least you can acknowledge that
  Glad we agree.
  Now, i am sure People in global south are happy about finally not having access to Aids medication or famine relief :) cool.
  This has been discussed elsewhere in this thread. Here's a fun piece to add: Which president started the global AIDS initiative?
  Now they can just safely drop into the arms of Russian or Chinese Influence. Like we have seen in West Africa, where the situation for people has improved by exactly 0% since the dictators in power are now backed by Russia.
  Do we actually know what the material conditions are on the ground in the new Sahel states? Seems we have been subject to a media blackout about it. I'm personally cautiously optimistic because of their strong stance against neocolonialism but we have very little information. It's also worth pointing out that despite Russia and China being close strategic allies at the world level, their foreign policies are wildly different.
  Trump ended the war in Gaza? Funny, to my knowledge, the genocide is continuing.
  What's actually funny is how the libs in this thread keep missing my actual point. I definitely never said he ended the war, but he did get the ceasefire done that Joe Biden claimed to have been working on for years. Donald Trump claims to not give a shit about the Palestinians yet got the ceasefire done. Joe "Proud Zionist" Biden claims to care about the plight of the Palestinians yet did less to end their suffering. The point is that Democratic lip service is often worse or equivalent to the Republicans' more honest cruelty, especially in foreign policy
  
  The "new" sahel states are going great: In Mali, Wagner Troops shoot civilians, Malian Refugees get raped while trying to cross the border into Niger and there are still large scale famines. Elections have been abolished, because Goïta just knows best.
  In Niger, the nationalization of the Uranium Mines was never fully realized, instead it's used as an insurance policy for the new Junta to stay in power. As long as foreign Powers acknowledge the legitimacy of the Junta, they can keep extracting Uranium. The main trigger for this coup wasnt "anti-neocolonialism", but the impending replacement of Tchiani as Head of the Presidential Guard. This guard conducted a coup and to noones surprise, the new Head of State is now Tchiani.
  In Guinea, the current Junta first claimed, they'd hold elections in 2024 to transition back to civilian government. Now they claim to do in 2026. Meanwhile, they are busy pardoning convicted warcriminals (copying the trump playbook here). Economically, no improvement has happened.
  Let's go to Burkina Faso: Wagner is incapable of holding the insurgency back. Djibo, supplied by air lift until the expulsion of the French Airforce, is right now turning into Leningrad. Traoré's initial reason for both his coups and the expulsion of the French was a lack of success in repelling this Islamic Insurgency. The situation is now worse than it has been in 2021. Oh, and again, Elections were pushed back until 2029.
  They replaced French Neocolonialism with Russian Neocolonialism, called it liberation and then its business as usual. Top down oppression, selling off natural resources in order to finance your own grip on power and maybe a different flavor of ethnic violence.
  
  Regarding the ceasefire: One had already happened under Biden and the plans and terms for this one were also hammered out under Biden. Netanyahu deliberately held out. Now, this second ceasefire was also violated numerous times which didnt even draw any reaction from the Trump government.
  Democratic limp dicked "support" for Palestinians got Aid sent into the strip and atleast preserved a veneer of trying to solve the crisis. Trump on the other hand got his ceasefire and then dipped. Oh wait, he did not dip. He called several times for the complete expulsion of all Palestinians, has encouraged the Knesset and after Israel continued its invasion, the White House issued statements supporting this.
  To pretend that this admin, which is now actively and wholeheartedly supporting every action the IGF is taking, is even on the same level as the Biden admin, is laughable.

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