I was only gone for a day or two...

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How's this rational? That's an emotional evaluation. I'm not even arguing with that. But that's not the point of the discussion.
- Maybe "nightmare" is too subjective/emotional. But it's undeniably unsustainable, inhumane, barbaric and outdated. We know better is the biggest issue. We don't need to treat our food that way.
  (P.S. I'm not vegan, I'm just full of cognitive dissonance lol)
  
  That's never been the point of this discussion, stop flaming. That's just toxic.
  
  I'm flaming? Sorry, just was trying to point out that becoming vegan can be more than just an emotional choice.
- Meat production is a prime contributor to climate change. Large amounts of resources go into raising meat. Further, cattle and pig production (not so much chicken) is the prime pathway to food contamination. Whenever you see lettuce recalls because of e. coli, that's because animal shit got mixed in with the lettuce or the water for the lettuce.
  Choosing not to eat meat because of these facts seems like a pretty rational choice, no emotion involved.
  
  Oh boy, why are you arguing about things that you clearly don't understand? "Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose." Veganism doesn't care about climate. People don't go vegan to save climate. Some adopt a plant-based diet though, but these are separate bubbles that just barely intersect.
  
  Got it, so you are emotionally defining veganism in such a way that you aren't actually vegan if you don't get there for emotional reasons.
  If that's your definition of veganism then of course nobody can get there with reason. You've created a tautology with your emotion filled definition.
  For the record, veganism is defined by MW as
  : a strict vegetarian who consumes no food (such as meat, eggs, or dairy products) that comes from animals
  also : one who abstains from using animal products (such as leather)
  https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vegan
  That was the definition I was operating under. Sorry I didn't Intuit your arbitrary definition you pulled from "eat meat.com" or whatever you got it.
  
  They got that definition from The Vegan Society, the leading charity/group representing the movement.
  
  Ah yes, merriam webster, the most informed and accurate source on the subject of veganism lol. The fact that you don't know where my definition comes from tells everything one needs to know about your involvement in the community 🤷‍♂️
  
  Here's a quote from the site you cherry picked
  Some people may choose to go vegan, for some it may be because they do not believe in farmed animal practices and animal exploitation, for others it may be due to environmental concerns. Whatever the reason The Vegan Society is here to support everyone on their vegan journey.
  Gee, looks like the vegan society also recognizes some people become vegan because of climate change... Or maybe you are going to redefine more terms so you can win your argument.
  
  Or maybe you are pulling a definition not commonly accepted by the community or English speakers. No, that can't be right, you are obviously smarter than I am. After all, you are a rational person that'd never engage in strawman attacks.
  
  Dude, what are you on about. Plenty of vegans I know go vegan because it's better for the environment. That's a big part of why I'm vegetarian. Why make it such an "us and them" dilemma? They're just people, even if you don't ascribe to their choices. It seems like you're more concerned about being right than being correct.
  
  Plenty of vegans I know go vegan because it's better for the environment.
  I'm sorry, but you're unbelievably stupid.
  
  Weird personal attack there. Care to explain?
  
  Ad hominem: check.
  Don’t expect any rational choices here.
  Perhaps don't cry about rationality if all you have in your brain is logical fallacies.
  
  I've never seen this website before but it's absolutely hilarious to point out the other person's logical fallacy like that lol.

867 comments