Canada proposes 100% tariffs on Tesla, I have an alternative: open the door to Chinese EVs

Except they aren't trash, they're better than Teslas that's for sure.

They are still data hungry, surveillance machines that are allways online and gps tracked. We need cars without that kinda shit built in.
- There has been talks about forcing Chinese cars to come over disconnected. Every new car is a surveillance machine. The western brands will not be asked to disconnect anything and it will probably be illegal to do so yourself, so Chinese cars might be an actual win in that regard.
- American car company secretly send your driving data to your insurance company so they can squeeze more out from you for any minor reason they see fit. There's no reason canada insurance company won't do that. Scared about chinese car collecting your data is kinda missed the point, you should have stronger data protection instead.
- exactly like their US counterparts though
- I'de rather China have my data than an company over here. What are they gunna do with it that would affect me?
  
  that's exactly what got us in this mess in the first place.
  
  What mess? American Imperialism / Capitalism imploding on itself?
  
  A foreign power having far, far too much control over our economic possessions. Information is a resource; what they do with it is inconsequential, we have to stop giving it away to people simply because they're our 'trade partners' right now.
  
  So a direct consequence of Usamerican capitalism/Imperialism, got it.
  
  Yes. You're phrasing that like it's some kind of gotcha, but this whole conversation started with me pointing out that we'd just be repeating our errors with the us but versus a different imperial polity.
  
  Correlation attacks, China is king of hoovering up data.
  
  Overly dramatic example: you are in the armed forces, you have a TikTok account, you post a bunch of shit that shows you are in the armed forces. You get deployed for some covert fuckabout and are told to leave your phone at home. You turn off your phone, pick up 3 of your buddies in your Chinese EV and drive to the base/airport/sea port. Dozens of people do this and by seeing the pattern China knows that a bunch of armed forces are being told to quietly deploy.
  
  A less dramatic example might be figuring out where politicians are by knowing where their employees are.
  
  Nobody hoovers up more data than the US.
  
  Remember when Elon remotely unlocked that cybertruck recently and accessed the cameras?
  
  Nobody hoovers up more data than the US.
  
  The US can't even unlock an iPhone without calling in 3rd parties. EVERY Chinese made device collects data, and every Chinese business gives full access to the Chinese government. The US government does collect data but it's no where near the scale of the Chinese.
  
  Remember when Elon remotely unlocked that cybertruck recently and accessed the cameras?
  
  He unlocked a device made by a company he owns, running software they designed on a network they operate. All that shows is that Tesla's vehicles are not properly secured and remote access can be abused by Tesla employees.
  
  We have roughly three million ways to say "US bad" right now, and you pick a less than true one.
  
  US government data collection is not on the scale of China. The US is limited in what it gets from companies. China is absolutely not.
  
  Yes, the US should absolutely have more data protection laws. The EU is better. China is absolutely not.
  
  False
  
  Why would I give a shit about China knowing about where murderers are?
  
  Hello, ml.
Except they aren’t trash, they’re better than Teslas that’s for sure.

It's possible to be trash and also better than Tesla...
- That's a low fucking bar lol
My toenail clippings are better than Teslas.
That's what my friend in NZ told me too, they're really good, better or the same as Tesla.

Build cars in Germany, Japan, South Korea and the like. focus on something non car you can sell to them in return. You can do anything but not everything.

Building cars is something we already do in Canada. And there's currently a lot of capacity coming online to build electric cars. Pretty much the entire car could be sourced from Canadian parts, including the batteries. I think semi-conductors are the only thing that doesn't have a domestic source right now.
- Sedans please.

But we were fine with the usa destroying multiple countries, participating in many coups and supporting Israel for decades.

Cheap Chinese trash mobiles built by Uyghur slave labor are not the answer.

Source?

How about we build cars in Canada instead?

Another person who thinks the world is like a SIMS game... just press the button and the factory pops up, right?!

EVs are easier to build than gas cars at least

At least keep the tracking and voice-recording (for Ai) in-country. I don't see that in a provable fashion in the cheap asian cars.

LOL, have you seen the EVs that are coming out of China nowadays?

If they were trash the EU and US wouldn’t put tariffs on them, because they wouldn’t threaten our own manufacturers no?

I would be sympathetic if the Uyghur stuff was true.

Do you have any substantial sources, to objectively prove your claims? I've never seen anything convincing.

I'm not intending to simp for China. They are authoritarian. But I'm also not going to fall for propaganda especially if it's false. The USA has a motive for making the masses hate China.

There is plenty of evidence widely available from organizations like human rights watch and amnesty international. Claims that deny any evidence exist of the persecution of China's Muslim population rely on logical fallacies to attempt to obscure the validity of the body of evidence. Namely ad hominem attacks against the individual who first gathered the evidence to begin with.

While the researcher obviously has biased opinions about the CCP, that doesn't affect the validity of the evidence gathered, most of which comes directly from publicly available information released by the CCP itself, or from leaked internal communication from party members that have been widely verified by reputable journalists and organizations specializing in human rights violations.

While I personally wouldn't claim that there is a genocide as we traditionally understand it has occurred, it's hard to deny that the Uyghur people aren't being systemically oppressed or that significant human rights violations haven't occurred.

Simply looking at publicly available census data releases by the CCP we can tell that Uyghur people are being driven from culturally important sites that are being replaced by ethnically Han Chinese, and that Uyghur populations have been shrinking at a worryingly abnormal rate.

If we look at recent history of ethnic conflict within China in tibet, Manchuria, and inner Mongolia, I fail to see why it's logical to assume that the accusations of crimes against humanity is pure propaganda.

Han chauvinism is well documented, and even Mao Zedong spoke about how it would negatively affect the future of the party. Ethnic conflict/cleansing has been a constant in the region and is part of the foundational history of modern China.
- While I personally wouldn’t claim that there is a genocide as we traditionally understand it has occurred, it’s hard to deny that the Uyghur people aren’t being systemically oppressed or that significant human rights violations haven’t occurred.
  
  It is politicization to be overly critical of China over what is a reasonable solution to peace and prosperity in the region, while the west contributes to 1000x worse treatment of Palestinians. That politicization gap shows that there is zero concern for actual genocide or persecution and instead a desire for (or avoidance for Israel for) political criticism independent of prosperity/facts.
  
  It is politicization to be overly critical of China over what is a reasonable solution to peace and prosperity in the region
  
  So..... Forcing an entire ethnic group into concentration camps, forced migration, forced assimilation, and depopulation is reasonable? For what, because there were a couple attacks from some extremists?
  
  while the west contributes to 1000x worse treatment of Palestinians.
  
  I wasn't aware it was a competition? Human rights violations should be criticized no matter who's doing it.
  
  That politicization gap shows that there is zero concern for actual genocide or persecution and instead a desire for (or avoidance for Israel for) political criticism independent of prosperity/facts.
  
  Again..... I'm not the American government. I am very critical of the US governments involvement with many genocides throughout history. I am also very critical of any government who participates in similar human rights violations, because I'm not a massive hypocrite.
  
  So… Forcing an entire ethnic group into concentration camps, forced migration, forced assimilation, and depopulation is reasonable? For what, because there were a couple attacks from some extremists?
  
  Hard proof of all of that has never been produced. Contrary facts exist for all your points.
  
  What do you consider hard proof?
  
  As I said, most of the information used has been verified by independent reporters or human rights organizations.
  
  If you required the same level of "hard proof" as you are dictating for China then most crimes against humanity never happened.
  
  We have video and pictures of concentration camps, we have verified internal documents, we have demographics released to the public by the offending government, we have personal testimony, we have announcements from the government admitting to moderate the birth limits of an extreme minority in the country...
  
  What else could you possibly want?
  
  secret papers can't be hard proof. Neither is a photo of what may be a prison. There are extremely weak documentaries trying to hype up "re-education", but the US pledge of allegiance would be equivalent indoctrination.
  
  If you required the same level of “hard proof” as you are dictating for China then most crimes against humanity never happened.
  
  at the risk of whataboutism, you have Israel engaged in genocidal mass murder on video. Politics of shit talking China is far more important than any objective principle of oppression.
  
  We have video and pictures of concentration camps, we have verified internal documents, we have demographics released to the public by the offending government, we have personal testimony, we have announcements from the government admitting to moderate the birth limits of an extreme minority in the country…
  
  There is genuine context/exaggeration to all of these points. Demographics and income specifically show Xinxiang doing better than average in China.
  
  secret papers can't be hard proof.
  
  According to.....? If you read the article the leaks were cross referenced and verified using things like time, date, other communications and even individual signatures.
  
  Internal documents are some of the most sought after forms of evidence when examining crimes against humanity. One of the reasons the Holocaust is beyond doubt is because the Nazi had so many "secret" documents.
  
  the risk of whataboutism, you have Israel engaged in genocidal mass murder on video.
  
  Yes, and one of the reasons why is because foreign journalist have access to the region. One wonders why China have levied so many access restrictions to Xinjiang.
  
  Politics of shit talking China is far more important than any objective principle of oppression.
  
  Sounds like a projection to me. I would say you care more about defending any type of criticism more than oppression that is happening.
  
  There is genuine context/exaggeration to all of these points.
  
  Such as?
  
  Demographics and income specifically show Xinxiang doing better than average in China.
  
  Would you care to extrapolate on this, or should I just take your claims as fact?
  
  population growth (2010-2020) 4th highest province: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_administrative_divisions_by_population#/media/File:Annual_population_growth_rate_by_Chinese_province.svg
  
  Xinxiang has had autonomous long term exemptions to one child policy.
  
  gdp growth 2024, 2nd highest: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1179690/china-gross-domestic-product-gdp-growth-by-region-province/#%3A~%3Atext=GDP+growth+in+China+2024%2C+by+region&text=In+2024%2C+the+annual+real%2Cat+5.0+percent+in+2024.
  
  longer term growth, shows the region outperforming China average, with higher outperformance in recent years. https://www.statista.com/statistics/804093/china-gdp-annual-growth-of-xinjiang-province/
  
  population growth (2010-2020) 4th highest province: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_administrative_divisions_by_population#/media/File:Annual_population_growth_rate_by_Chinese_province.svg
  
  This is measuring overall population change, not specific to the ethnic group we are talking about. The CCP has been subsidizing Han immigration into the area and displacing the native population.
  
  gdp growth 2024, 2nd highest: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1179690/china-gross-domestic-product-gdp-growth-by-region-province/#%3A~%3Atext=GDP+growth+in+China+2024%2C+by+region&text=In+2024%2C+the+annual+real%2Cat+5.0+percent+in+2024.
  
  Again, the government has been increasing spending in the region to entice Han citizens to move to the area. This does not say anything about the native population.
  
  "Xinjiang is a vast region with an area of 1.66 million km2. Until the 1950s, Uyghurs were the majority ethnic group in the region, accounting for more than 90 percent of the total population."
  
  "Between the 1940s and the 1980s, attempts to incorporate the region into the modern Chinese national state brought about a 2,500 per cent increase in the Han population. Today, Han and Uyghurs each account for approximately 40 per cent of Xinjiang’s total population of roughly 25.5 million. Clearly, the basic trajectory over the past decades has been one of moving Han rapidly into the region. This is coupled in more recent years with a significant shrinking of the Uyghur population."
  
  "The Han population in the region increased at an average rate of 8.1 per cent yearly, from 5 per cent in 1947 to around 40 per cent in 2000. Officially, Uyghurs comprise about 45 percent of Xinjiang’s permanent population with Han representing approximately 42 percent, and Kazakh, Hui and other ethnicities making up the rest. However, these figures belie the very high number of long-term resident and temporary Han migrant workers as well as thousands of security personnel in Xinjiang. They also obscure data from the 2020 Chinese Statistical Yearbook, showing that between 2017 and 2019 the birth rate in Xinjiang dropped approximately 48.7 per cent, from 15.88 per thousand in 2017 to 8.14 per thousand in 2019. The average for all of China was 10.48 per thousand."
  
  "The capital of the province itself went from being a city in which there were hardly any Han Chinese before 1949 to one in which the Uyghurs have been almost completely displaced. In addition, across Xinjiang, urban redesign projects have demolished hundreds of thousands of homes and resettled millions of Uyghur residents on the pretext of ‘civilization’ (文明) and ‘beautification’ (美化)."
  
  "Since the mid-1990s, the gradual exclusion of Uyghurs from state-based employment – and the rising number of private jobs – is statistically verifiable from a variety of sources. While Han Chinese were able to secure employment, Uyghurs were kept out of construction jobs, road-building projects and oil and gas pipelines. Uyghurs with graduate degrees were only employed at an estimated 15 per cent, and, according to a 2013 study, Uyghurs earned an average of 59 per cent of what their Han counterparts earned."
  
  Source from Minority Rights Group
  
  Your claim of greater context seems to be lacking any kind of context at all. It's pretty clear you have no real knowledge of the history of ethnic conflict in Asia at all, nor do you seem to be able to differentiate between the demographics of a region from the demographics of the ethnic minority in the region.
  
  Like I said, I do admire a lot about China's government and their ability to lift a huge population out of poverty. However, they are currently undergoing a conservative culture revisionism when it comes to things like minority and women's rights. If you want to examine the problem yourself I'd suggest looking at the rapid decline of representation of both women and minorities in both local governments and the politburo compared to even 20 years ago.
  
  Again, I don't think you really know much about the region, or just how pivotal ethnic conflict is to the modern identity of China.
  
  Two wrongs don’t make a right.
  
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
Oh boy, genocide denial.
Oh I think you registered on the wrong instance

Hexbear is what you're looking for, this way most of us won't see your comments.
Yes. It is absolutely shameful propaganda to the most humanist response to terrorism in history: Education and job creation. Very significant prosperity in region. The political designation of genocide is based on some unwed mothers with 4+ children going to UK to say they were now sterile, FFS. The anti-China hateful have no metrics to stop hating China. Only propaganda amplification.
- It is absolutely shameful propaganda to the most humanist response to terrorism in history: Education and job creation. Very significant prosperity in region.
  
  America said the same thing when they forced assimilation on the native population after stealing their land.
  
  The political designation of genocide is based on some unwed mothers with 4+ children going to UK to say they were now sterile, FFS.
  
  Or just demographics?
  
  Again, your only defense to actual evidence is just logical fallacy. You aren't making any argument in good faith.
  
  The anti-China hateful have no metrics to stop hating China. Only propaganda amplification.
  
  I actually admire a lot about the Chinese government, they've done wonders in recent decades to undue nearly a hundred years of foreign interference and imperialism. That doesn't mean I'm not going to be critical of the things I don't like about the government.
  
  The simple fact is that they have a fairly well documented history of oppressing non-Han minorities in the country.