6mo ago

/c/politics basic rules:

I thought I could take this down after the election, apparently not.

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Those posts are better directed to Political Discussion or Political Memes.

!politicaldiscussion@lemmy.world

!politicalmemes@lemmy.world

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69 comments

Now what are you going to do to convince those for whom genocide was a bridge too far?
[...]how do you expect to change their minds?
I'm not. Because, generally speaking, people don't really change their minds. They just look to confirm their own biases. Its the big reason republicans have such strong support despite being the worst party by every metric except hate. It's also the reason Harris was never going to back down on her support for Israel. Well that and AIPAC, with them around even I wouldn't wholly denounce Israel no matter how much I'd like to. Besides if genocide is "a bridge too far," then why, pray tell, do they support more genocide?
- I’m not. Because, generally speaking, people don’t really change their minds. They just look to confirm their own biases.
  Well then I would argue, that by offering the rhetoric you did, you were never really interested in winning this election through the use of this rhetorical technique. This kind of bad-faith approach (whether its acknowledged or not), is what lost the Democrats this election. If you aren't actually trying to change anyone's mind with that point, then why are you making it? Who do you expect it to work on? It seems to me that its mostly a virtue signal; an effort to wash your hands of responsibility.
  Democrats fundamental thesis this election cycle was "Trump bad and or worse". It's now in the books that this approach to rhetoric lost them the election. You can't continue to pretend it was in good faith.
  
  If you aren’t actually trying to change anyone’s mind with that point, then why are you making it?
  Honestly I often wonder that my self. Well, I know the answer in this particular instance of me, in this thread. I saw something I had an opinion on, so I shared it. The ensuing "argument" is basically more of the same, with the added bonus of being a sort of emotional pressure release valve.
  But in general, why do we (as human beings) bother with the verbal arguments and rhetorical sparring? People changing their minds on something is rare, so logically speaking it's a waste of time. Some sort of emotional fulfillment? Vain hope? Because the alternative is violence and we're supposed to be better than that? I certainly don't know.
  
  I'm using you as an example, so don't take this overly personal, but I think you owe yourself, and if or any one else reading this, made the argument that you are relying on here, they owe this community some serious introspection.
  I've been trying to communicate to this for the community for literally months, that the rhetorical approach that they are insisting on is/ was/ and has now been documented, to have done serious damage to the best shot we had at stopping Trump. Providing cover and excuses for bad Democratic candidates and policies does material damage to the chances of Democrats to win at the polls because it selects for less popular, more vulnerable, weaker Democrats. If you are not working to hold Democrats accountable and trying to defend them from criticism, this election loss is on you.
  
  As I mentioned upchain, multiple groups can be at fault, and chronologically the buck ended with the voters. The voters failed to hold their noses and work with the lesser of two evils, so now we're stuck with the greater one until that orange fatass croaks and we have to deal with the post-collapse chaos.
  
  Again and again and again: you have an intentional block that you are keeping in place that is preventing you from understanding why this happened. I just want you to notice it at this point. Its already done enough damage to mortally wound the democratic project. Just please notice this blind spot of yours.

69 comments