6mo ago

"No, I'm not doing nothing I'm raising awareness!"

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by not voting for a candidate that can win, your vote is entirely thrown away, it could've been used on someone who had a chance, but was wasted, therefore it benefitted the party you least support
vote strategically, or why bother?
- Yeah… they have no intention to discuss anything in good faith whatsoever. You’re spot on with the logic, but they’re not going to even address it. Instead- they’ll just dump an unasked-for ethics lesson on you because it makes them feel smart and superior to everyone.
  Check their comment history. They’re like a wannabe Chidi from The Good Place, only he isn’t even a real person, and their interpretation of him is WAY off.
- or why bother?
  Why are you encouraging people not to vote?
  
  I'm not, I'm encouraging them to vote strategically
- Ok, so now it's thrown away as opposed to being a vote for Trump.
  There are several good reasons why voting third party is better than not voting. First, it is a self-fulfilling prophesy to say that a third party can't win, and that assumption is based on previous vote totals in previous elections, so the total in this election will affect conventional wisdom in future elections. Second, there are thresholds where even if a party doesn't win, they could be eligible for things like public election funding. Third, voting third party as opposed to not voting promotes political engagement, and can publicize organizations like PSL that are involved in things outside of elections. Fourth, voting third party tells politicians where you're politically aligned, and opens the door for the party to bargain with a major party and potentially being able to offer an endorsement in exchange for concessions.
  
  it's both
  it's a vote thrown away, which benefits trump, if you'd be a kamala supporter
  this is so not complicated the mental gymnastics on display could go to the olympics
  as for your points
  It's mathematically impossible for a third party candidate to win, no amount of throwing away your vote will change the mathmatical certainty, this shows you did not understand the video you responded to
  congrats, you have funded a party that can with absolute certainty accomplish nothing, woop de do.
  Voting always does that
  At the cost of benefitting the party you like the least... there's so many ways to do that that are risk free but instead you risk trump for god knows what reason
  
  I wouldn't be a Kamala supporter, so it doesn't benefit Trump. Glad we got that resolved.
  It’s mathematically impossible for a third party candidate to win
  Objectively false. If a third party candidate got the most votes, then they would win, so it is mathematically possible. I understand the video perfectly.
  congrats, you have funded a party that can with absolute certainty accomplish nothing, woop de do.
  Even if they accomplished nothing, I'd still rather my money go to them than to the government or either major party, all of which I oppose.
  Voting always does that
  Sorry, you asked "why vote at all if you're not going to vote strategically," so that's the question I was answering.
  At the cost of benefitting the party you like the least
  I'm not benefitting the party I like the least, I am only benefiting the party I vote for.
  
  If you made a list of your top choices for president, from 1-whatever, would kamala be higher than trump, or lower?
  
  Higher.
  
  Then you would indeed be a kamala supporter and you are indeed negatively impacting your better choice with this
  
  Wrong. I wouldn't support Kamala regardless of her being the lesser evil. I would abstain, because neither of them are at all acceptable to me.
  
  that accomplishes nothing but improving the odds of your last choice. It's not like your vote is an endorsement... everyone knows about strategic voting, so, the fact that you're voting strategically makes it obvious that you don't support that person just because you voted for them.
  
  I doesn't improve either candidate's chances at all. And voting is an endorsement, no matter how much you pretend otherwise.
  
  Your logic doesn't make sense. We only get one or the other of them, that is the inevitable outcome of the election. It is going to be either Trump or Harris. You just said Trump is worse than Harris in a previous comment. If you legitimately believe Trump is worse then it is basic harm reduction to vote for the person who is capable of defeating him. Choosing to not vote or to vote third party reduces the chances of Harris winning and increases the chances of Trump winning. Either you actually do want Trump to win and are trolling or your ethics and values are incoherent.
  
  Trump is worse than Harris, and one of them will win the election, that is true. But I don't agree that that means I should vote for Harris. I believe it is necessary to hold politicians to a minimum standard, and that refusing to vote for a candidate that doesn't meet that standard is a means of enforcing it. Even if a third party can't win this election, voting for them still serves to establish a credible threat of defection. This is one of many reasons why the ideology of lesser-evilism is incorrect.
  Choosing to not vote or to vote third party reduces the chances of Harris winning and increases the chances of Trump winning
  It does neither of those things, actually. It neither increases nor decreases the chances of either candidate winning.
  
  The things you believe do not make sense or map to actual reality.
  What do you think voting is doing if its not increasing or decreasing the likelihood of a candidate winning?
  If there's only two possible outcomes between three choices, and one of those choices is clearly the worst outcome and another one of them is clearly not a possible outcome, which choice would you make and why?
  
  In think you hit the nail on the head for me with this one:
  I wouldn't be a Kamala supporter, so it doesn't benefit Trump
  I'm in the same boat. Many of Kamala's policies aren't things I want or agree with. Many of Trump's policies aren't things I want or agree with. I disagree with BOTH of the major candidates so much that it doesn't make sense for me to vote for either of them.
  They aren't losing my vote, their platforms are such that neither ever had my vote to begin with. It's not like my vote would have been for Kamala, but since I have a small issue with one of her planks, then I'm throwing a fit and I'm going to vote 3rd party.
  Neither major candidate deserves my vote, In fact I think the difference between Kamala and Trump winning is relatively small for the US. Either of them winning will be a nightmare for the US. They're both terrible people, they may lie about different things, and the media favors one or the other more for their own benefit. They're both authoritarian warmongers, who say whatever it takes on the campaign trail to get elected, then stomp all over regular people when they get into power. The major parties are not the same, but they're both fucked.
  I also happen to live in a state where one party will get double the other party's votes, and it's been that way for nearly my entire life. MY VOTE FOR PRESIDENT LITERALLY DOESN'T MATTER HERE, EVEN IF I LIKED ONE OF THE MAJOR CANDIDATES.
  If other people like Kamala more than Trump, enough to cast their vote for her, then I encourage them to do so. I understand in swing states where individual votes aren't annihilated by a supermajority that people may have to be more strategic in their voting and take the bad with the good.
  But personally, I vote for a 3rd party candidate with no chance to win, whose platform I happen to agree with more than any other candidate, and I can live with myself and the eventual outcome.
  I definitely agree on getting out of first past the post though.

495 comments