How much do you all pay for Power?
My PGE bill is a little over 50c per kilowatt hour. Its starting to become like a second mortgage or car payment for some. Wondering what other people are paying for their power.
https://www.pge.com/assets/pge/docs/account/rate-plans/residential-electric-rate-plan-pricing.pdf
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Well, California has some of the highest electricity rates in the US. IIRC the exceptions are Hawaii and Alaska.
That being said, last I looked, it was more like $0.21/kWh. Hadn't realized that it had gotten that high.
EDIT: Here's a per-state list for average residential prices for 2024:
https://www.usatoday.com/money/homefront/deregulated-energy/electricity-rates-by-state/
That has California at an average of 29.49 cents/kWh, which is quite high as the US goes, but not nearly as high as yours. It does say that prices went up 11% since last year.
California has had a major problem where billing just happened per kWh, so that people who were using solar (or some other form of local generation) were basically dumping the cost of maintaining the grid connections onto people who weren't doing local generation, since the solar users were purchasing few kWhs. This was very politically controversial, especially since the latter group was generally poorer. IIRC, California is just or will be passing policy changes that will limit that, so the kWh cost from the grid should drop, though people getting most of their power from solar will have a higher overall bill than they had; there's a separate bill item for the grid connection and for the electricity provided over it.
https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article288420595.html
Not sure when that enters or entered into force. However, it should depress per-kWh charges, though there'll be a fixed charge for the grid connection.
Sounds like PG&E also got the go-ahead to do a bunch of underground lines and rate hikes to get customers to pay for them. I understand that buried lines are more-common in Europe -- you don't have to see power lines, but it costs more to stick 'em underground and maintain 'em, and the US typically keeps 'em aboveground, unless it's a major urban area.
Electricity costs will get even higher for many Bay Area residents after California regulators approved the latest in a series of PG&E rate hikes at a voting meeting on Thursday.
The utility seeks to recover $943.9 million in costs related to wildfire mitigation and damages from power outages during severe storms in recent years. It asked state regulators to approve a temporary rate increase of $5.16 per month for its average customer.
It’s the third such “interim rate relief” request from PG&E within a year, according to California Public Utility Commission documents. In July 2023, regulators allowed PG&E to raise rates temporarily by an average of $10.30 and then again by around $5 a month the following March.
These smaller, temporary rate hikes are in addition to regulators’ approval of a much larger general rate adjustment proposal last year to help PG&E cover the cost of burying thousands of miles of lines underground in the most wildfire-prone parts of the state, as well as other investments.
Ratepayers saw an average increase of about $30 a month on their bills beginning this year because of that.
I don't really care about not having lines visible, though I don't think that people not where underground lines are should be paying for those, that it should be people in an area that want them underground to cover the cost.
It would be interesting, I think, to have a journalist go to some states with wildly-different costs and do a breakdown of why electricity in different states costs different amounts. I think that it's pretty legitimate for someone living in a place with high utility costs to ask for and and get an explicit breakdown showing why their utility provider can't be competitive with one in another state.
It should be noted that burying lines in this case is not for aesthetic reasons, but because trees falling on/growing into above-ground lines is one of the most common causes of wildfires. Putting the lines below the ground is much safer in that respect, but it is much harder to do maintenance on the lines should something go wrong.
Most of these lines are likely in regions where almost nobody lives, but a fire started in those forests can threaten a much larger swathe of customers.
It costs less in the long run because you don’t start a forest fire that burns down half the state. Should have buried them to begin with.
Maintain the underground power lines?
Im in Fresno...we have some of the worst economic situations of a major city in Cali. So we pay bay area prices with midwest wages.
PGE are crooks. Their entire board and execs should be in prison for the fires their failing equipment have caused and the subsequent deaths.
That said, I moved from southern California to Illinois recently. We went from 50-60 cents/kwh to something like 5 cents/kwh. I use a lot to power my servers, fans, and AC and don't fret if my bill hits $200 a month.
Yeah, that does seem kind of unreasonable for Fresno. I mean, not that I think that there isn't grounds to complain about the Bay Area being where it is either, but I get your point. Hits hard.
I'm not gonna ask whether you qualify, doesn't matter for the standpoint of this discussion, but if you're not aware, California has been pretty gung-ho on some low-income household utility subsidy programs; some of those have gone through recently. If you do qualify, hope that might help.
That program is closed now unfortunately. So many people tried to jump on that it was quickly overwhelmed from what I saw on the news.
I agree, its unfair for the bay AND the central valley. Given that PGE has had record profits year after year lately doesn't make me feel any better...
At this point im getting solar out of spite.
At this point im getting solar out of spite.
Aight, and seems like a legit thing to look into, but I'd run the numbers on 'em first. Especially given that they've got the grid connection fee coming or present, it will make solar less-favorable than it had been in some recent years, and a lot of companies went up to homeowners and told 'em "I've got a great investment for you" that didn't always turn out to be quite as good an idea as some people hoped.
You might also want to price insulation costs of various things on your place. Like, that may provide a better return. I don't know the numbers, but windows, weatherstripping, attic, etc.
EDIT: One other option, since Fresno's pretty arid too -- you might also look at evaporative coolers, aka swamp coolers. More maintenance than air conditioning, but about an eighth the energy consumption for a given amount of cooling, can keep windows open and fresh air coming through. I have a portable evaporative cooler that I keep by my desk that works nicely unless the temperature is really exceptionally high.
You are absolutely right. ill be looking at the numbers. But with 50c+ per kilowatt...its going to be hard NOT to make my money back.
At 50¢/kWh even adding batteries and trying to be as disconnected as (legally) possible from the grid might pay for itself!
I'm probably doing solar in spring, and I'm paying 20 cents per kwh. It's about a 13 year breakeven time, but that works for my circumstances. I plan to be here for awhile, my roof faces the right way, and it's a reasonable diversification of investment.
I'll still have some dependence on the grid, especially in winter. Might pull from the grid in some early morning hours, but net metering credits should pay for that.
I consider the rising price of electricity and the capital gains from an index funds roughly a wash. It's not, but I also don't want 100% of my investments in the stock market, and it's nice to do something responsible for the world.
So make sure to do your whole installation in one year. You only get to claim the 30% federal tax credit once. So don't go small with a plan to go bigger later. I couldn't do this without the federal credit.
Good to know thanks!
The problem with by state numbers is rates can vary widely between different regions within larger states like California.
This part is based solely on my own anecdata, but I recall paying LOADS of money per kwh in San Diego, but MUCH lower rates in Los Angeles. SDG&E is a scam company. I'm pretty sure LADWP is a public utility. I'm rambling at this point but good evidence that we should NOT privatize our utilities.