Apparently controversial, in this day and age

Again, your lack of education on the subject is quite entertaining. No, it isn’t war. Is the nation of Palestine at war with the nation of Israel? No. Israel claims to be at war with a vaguely defined terrorist organisation. There’s quite a lot of literature about the war on “terror” and how it enables authoritarian military action. Of course you haven’t read any of that.

ah curious, let's see. For full transparency, since i'm better at quoting from you, here is an excerpt from the original 1988 hamas charter

"Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement. Abusing any part of Palestine is abuse directed against part of religion. Nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its religion. Its members have been fed on that. For the sake of hoisting the banner of Allah over their homeland they fight. "Allah will be prominent, but most people do not know."

Now and then the call goes out for the convening of an international conference to look for ways of solving the (Palestinian) question. Some accept, others reject the idea, for this or other reason, with one stipulation or more for consent to convening the conference and participating in it. Knowing the parties constituting the conference, their past and present attitudes towards Moslem problems, the Islamic Resistance Movement does not consider these conferences capable of realising the demands, restoring the rights or doing justice to the oppressed. These conferences are only ways of setting the infidels in the land of the Moslems as arbitraters. When did the infidels do justice to the believers?

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        "But the Jews will not be pleased with thee, neither the Christians, until thou follow their religion; say, The direction of Allah is the true direction. And verily if thou follow their desires, after the knowledge which hath been given thee, thou shalt find no patron or protector against Allah." (The Cow - verse 120).


  

There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors. The Palestinian people know better than to consent to having their future, rights and fate toyed with. As in said in the honourable Hadith:

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        "The people of Syria are Allah's lash in His land. He wreaks His vengeance through them against whomsoever He wishes among His slaves It is unthinkable that those who are double-faced among them should prosper over the faithful. They will certainly die out of grief and desperation."" https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp and your ever so coveted link of course.


  

But i'm sure you'll just say "well um akshually, this is old. So let's have a look at the "new charter" as referred to by hamas themselves.

link of course: https://israeled.org/resources/documents/hamas-a-document-of-general-principles-policies/ (ah but of course, this is an israeli source, how could i trust it? Well, jstor has a copy, but it's fucking paywalled and im not paying for that shit)

"Palestine is the land of the Arab Palestinian people, from it they originate, to it they adhere and belong, and about it they reach out and communicate."

just a little tidbit on palestine being arab, get fucked even hamas says so.

"Palestine is the cause of a people who have been let down by a world that fails to secure their rights and restore to them what has been usurped from them, a people whose land continues to suffer one of the worst types of occupation in this world.

Palestine is a land that was seized by a racist, anti-human and colonial Zionist project that was founded on a false promise (the Balfour Declaration), no recognition of a usurping entity and on imposing a fait accompli by force.

Palestine symbolizes the resistance that shall continue until liberation is accomplished, until the return is fulfilled and until a fully sovereign state is established with Jerusalem as its capital."

oh boy this sounds familiar.

" Palestine, which extends from the River Jordan in the east to the Mediterranean in the west and from Ras Al-Naqurah in the north to Umm Al-Rashrash in the south, is an integral territorial unit. It is the land and the home of the Palestinian people. The expulsion and banishment of the Palestinian people from their land and the establishment of the Zionist entity therein do not annul the right of the Palestinian people to their entire land and do not entrench any rights therein for the usurping Zionist entity. Palestine is an Arab Islamic land. It is a blessed sacred land that has a special place in the heart of every Arab and every Muslim."

hmmm.

"The Palestinian people are one people, made up of all Palestinians, inside and outside of Palestine, irrespective of their religion, culture or political affiliation."

Don't mind them casually dismissing your conception of ethnicity in this case.

"Hamas also believes that Palestine has always been and will always be a model of coexistence, tolerance and civilizational innovation."

they do also throw this one in there, to be fair.

Oh ADHD though time, did i mention the israeli settlements in westbank/gaza (however that works) because if not, why the fuck are they there? Yet another anti-israeli point for you to wrap your head around.

"The following are considered null and void: the Balfour Declaration, the British Mandate Document, the UN Palestine Partition Resolution, and whatever resolutions and measures that derive from them or are similar to them. The establishment of “Israel” is entirely illegal and contravenes the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people and goes against their will and the will of the Ummah; it is also in violation of human rights that are guaranteed by international conventions, foremost among them is the right to self-determination."

wonder how they're going to go about the dissolution of israel...

"Resisting the occupation with all means and methods is a legitimate right guaranteed by divine laws and by international norms and laws. At the heart of these lies armed resistance, which is regarded as the strategic choice for protecting the principles and the rights of the Palestinian people."

"how is this war?"

yeah idk man, they literally state by all means. I would presume war is included in that.

"Hamas rejects any attempt to undermine the resistance and its arms. It also affirms the right of our people to develop the means and mechanisms of resistance. Managing resistance, in terms of escalation or de-escalation, or in terms of diversifying the means and methods, is an integral part of the process of managing the conflict and should not be at the expense of the principle of resistance."

oops more war speak.

"From a legal and humanitarian perspective, the liberation of Palestine is a legitimate activity, it is an act of self-defence, and it is the expression of the natural right of all peoples to self-determination."

ah curious, self defense, surely this could not be construed to mean war could it?

accidentally posted, oopsiess, anyway.

Unless you think you’re so much more knowledgeable in international law than literally every single expert on international law?

man you really keep reaching, please show me somewhere i've explicitly stated that.

Since you seem to be partial to Wikipedia (probably because of it’s simplicity):

there's a few reasons, it's generally pretty accurate on the general public opinion of conflicts, and often has lots of high density information on the given topic, and unlike most of the internet, isn't a complete clusterfuck that is hell to navigate.

It's also generally universally accepted to be "moderately reliable" which is highly useful.

and since we're linking wikipedia as a source here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict

oh look at that, it lists it as a conflict, which is basically one step under a war.

“No my gf lives in Canada you wouldn’t know her, but she’s definitely real”

my brother in christ, scroll up you lazy motherfucker and see what i wrote, i haven't edited that shit because i'm not a removed ass motherfucker. And then yell at me on my contradictions or whatever the fuck you want to yell at me about. You love reading don't you? I thought you enjoyed this?

And you say you could equally well say to me that my facts don’t make sense? Mmm-hhmm, yeah. I keep showing actual sources from the United Nations and other reputable institutions and experts on international law.

cool story but like, it's irrelevant, try posting something actually relevant next time and maybe it'll matter lmao.

“fake news fake news.”

i have not but ok.

You might delude yourself into thinking we’re both on the same footing in the debate, but you are the only one who’s even slightly buying that.

and curiously, you keep yelling at me. It's almost as if you are not actually any better than me (because otherwise you would speaking with world leaders about this or something) or perhaps a scholar on the topic and busy studying, or you would just post an actually informative comment and leave it at that, because nothing more need be said, but nope, 12 comment chain instead.

You still refuse to answer very simple yes or no questions: is Israel committing warcrimes?

Oh look, another question you haven't asked yet which btw, yes israel is comitting war crimes, and so has hamas. It's almost like answering actual questions is, rather easy.

Is there a genocide being committed?

again, i don't know, and seeing as there is currently a court case on it, i will wait for that verdict. My opinion simply is not as valuable as the world of legal scholars and experts, but curiously, you seem to think your opinion is somehow more objectively right than those, even though they haven't yet deliberated on it.

You pretend to answer

respond to my actual answers pussy.

"Fake news fake news, everything is an opinion, facts don't exist! Israel is just defending itself! Genocide doesn't exist! Palestinians are animals, you can't genocide animals!"

How did you enjoy your birthright year?

https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/war-crimes.shtml https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/10/damning-evidence-of-war-crimes-as-israeli-attacks-wipe-out-entire-families-in-gaza/

Genocide hasn't been determined, as again, ICC procedures take time. Why are you ignoring this? Why are you claiming there is no evidence, when there is enough evidence for the ICC to find "reasonable grounds" for prosecuting and seeks arrest warrants for Netanyahu and Yoav Gallant? https://www.icc-cpi.int/sites/default/files/2024-05/240520-panel-report-eng.pdf

22. The Prosecutor seeks arrest warrants against Benjamin Netanyahu, the Prime Minister of Israel, and Yoav Gallant, the Israeli Minister of Defense, on the basis that they committed the war crime of ‘intentionally using starvation of civilians as a method of warfare’ under article 8(2)(b)(xxv) of the ICC Statute. The Prosecutor also seeks to charge the two suspects with various other war crimes and crimes against humanity associated with the use of starvation of civilians as a method of warfare under articles 7 and 8 of the ICC Statute. These include the war crimes of ‘[w]ilfully causing great suffering, or serious injury to body or health’ or cruel treatment, wilful killing or murder, and intentionally directing attacks against the civilian population. The proposed charges also include the crimes against humanity of murder, extermination, other inhumane acts and persecution with respect to deaths and injuries resulting from or associated with the systematic deprivation of objects indispensable to the survival of Palestinian civilians in Gaza. The Panel notes the Prosecutor’s statement that other alleged crimes, including in connection with the large-scale bombing campaign in Gaza, are actively being investigated.
23. The Prosecutor seeks to charge Netanyahu and Gallant on the basis that they made an essential contribution to a common plan to use starvation and other acts of violence against the Gazan civilian population as a means to eliminate Hamas and secure the return of hostages as well as to inflict collective punishment on the civilian population of Gaza who they perceived as a threat to Israel. It is also alleged that they had effective authority and control over their subordinates and knew of their subordinates’ crimes but did not take necessary action to prevent or repress these crimes, leading to their criminal responsibility as superiors.
24. The war crime of ‘intentionally using starvation of civilians as a method of warfare’ requires ‘depriving [civilians] of objects indispensable to their survival, including wilfully impeding relief supplies as provided for under the Geneva Conventions’. The crime is not limited solely to the deprivation of food, but includes other objects indispensable for the survival of civilians such as water, fuel and medicine.
25. The Panel notes three preliminary points relevant to its analysis. First, as a result of a number of factors, including the imposition by Israel of restrictions on the movement of people and goods from and to Gaza in the aftermath of its 2005 disengagement, Gazans were highly dependent on Israel for the provision of and access to objects indispensable for the survival of the population even before 7 October.7
26. Second, although Israeli officials have a right to ensure that aid is not diverted to the benefit of the enemy and to stipulate lawful technical arrangements for its transfer, they cannot impose arbitrary restrictions -- such as restrictions that violate Israel’s obligations under international law, including international humanitarian law and 7 international human rights law, or that contravene the principles of necessity and proportionality -- when exercising these rights.
27. Third, parties to an armed conflict must not deliberately impede the delivery of humanitarian relief for civilians, including humanitarian relief provided by third parties. And when a territory is under the belligerent occupation of one party to the conflict, there is also an enhanced active obligation for the occupying power to ensure adequate humanitarian aid for civilians, including by providing such aid itself insofar as this is necessary.8 In the Panel’s view, while it can reasonably be argued that Israel was the occupying power in Gaza even before 7 October 2023, Israel certainly became the occupying power in all of or at least in substantial parts of Gaza after its ground operations in the territory began.9
28. With this in mind, and based on a review of material presented by the Prosecutor, the Panel assesses that there are reasonable grounds to believe that Netanyahu and Gallant formed a common plan, together with others, to jointly perpetrate the crime of using starvation of civilians as a method of warfare. The Panel has concluded that the acts through which this war crime was committed include a siege on the Gaza Strip and the closure of border crossings; arbitrary restrictions on entry and distribution of essential supplies; cutting off supplies of electricity and water, and severely restricting food, medicine and fuel supplies. This deprivation of objects indispensable to civilians’ survival took place in the context of attacks on facilities that produce food and clean water, attacks against civilians attempting to obtain relief supplies and attacks directed against humanitarian workers and convoys delivering relief supplies, despite the deconfliction and coordination by humanitarian agencies with Israel Defence Forces. These acts took place with full knowledge of the extent of Gazans’ reliance on Israel for essential supplies, and the adverse and inevitable consequences of such acts in terms of human suffering and deaths for the civilian population.
29. The Prosecutor has also sought charges against Netanyahu and Gallant for the war crimes of wilful killing or murder and intentionally directing attacks against the civilian population, as well as the crimes against humanity of extermination or murder and persecution for deaths resulting from the use of starvation and related acts of violence including attacks on civilians gathering to obtain food and on humanitarian workers.
30. In the Panel’s view, there are reasonable grounds to believe that the suspects committed these crimes. The Panel also considers that there are reasonable grounds to believe that the crimes were committed in the context of a widespread and systematic attack against the civilian population of Gaza, pursuant to State policy.
31. The Panel’s assessment is that there are reasonable grounds to believe that Netanyahu and Gallant are responsible for the killing of civilians who died as a result of starvation, either because the suspects meant these deaths to happen or because they were aware that deaths would occur in the ordinary course of events as a result of their methods of warfare. According to material submitted by the Prosecutor, a large number of Palestinian civilians have already died in these circumstances. In relation to extermination, the number of deaths resulting from starvation is sufficient on its own to support the charge, according to standards set out in international jurisprudence.10 And this number is, unfortunately, only likely to rise. There are also reasonable grounds to believe that the starvation campaign and associated acts of violence involved the severe deprivation of victims’ fundamental rights by reason of their identity as Palestinians. This can be qualified as the crime against humanity of persecution.
32. The Prosecutor has also sought to charge Netanyahu and Gallant with the crime against humanity of other inhumane acts and the war crime of wilfully causing great suffering, or serious injury to body or health, or cruel treatment, with respect to the non-lethal suffering inflicted through starvation of the civilian population of Gaza. The Panel assesses that there are reasonable grounds to believe that the suspects committed these crimes against many thousands of individuals in Gaza.
33. Based on the material it has reviewed, the Panel assesses that there are reasonable grounds to believe that Netanyahu and Gallant made essential contributions to the common plan to use starvation of civilians as a method of warfare and commit other acts of violence against the civilian population. This is evidenced by their own statements and the statements of other Israeli officials. It is also evidenced by the systematic nature of the crime, and the involvement of the suspects at the apex of the Israeli governmental apparatus, with effective authority and control over their subordinates and leadership positions in the War Cabinet and Security Cabinet, in which all key decisions on the conduct of the war -- including blocking and limiting humanitarian aid -- have been made. The Panel is also of the view that there are reasonable grounds to believe that the suspects can be held responsible as superiors given their knowledge of the crimes and the fact that they took no steps to prevent or repress their subordinates who committed them.

But no, there's "no evidence", right? You're not just being a willfully ignorant brainwashed git who's ignoring all the literal evidence and having a tantrum, right? But you won't even read those chapters, and even if you did, your programming won't allow you to accept them. It's despicable. Get a fucking grip on your own head.