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Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.
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Exactly.
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But in south America they have been robbed blind by communists getting 11.5% loans from China for failed projects. IN DOZENS OF LATIN AMERICAN COUNTRIES!
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South America was robbed blind by Europe and North America.
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Yes. And then in the 21 century it was robbed by extreme left wing narco dictators and militant groups....
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what the fuck are you talking about
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If you are unaware of the last twenty years in Venezuela el salvador ecuador argentina and so many more... Please read up.
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Yeah, it's all China's fault and totally not the imperial power who exploited South America for decades, foisted murderous fascist regimes onto it and funded genocidal death squads over there who murdered millions.
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Indeed it is the fault of them! Your sarcasm about what happened over two decades ago, does not mean they the lady twenty years isn't EXACTLY how you describe : China and venezuela and farc and so on, abusing the entire continent.
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Hey fellow white supremacist mass-murder enthusiast! I'm on your side here! As I said... it’s all China’s fault and totally not the imperial power who exploited South America for decades, foisted murderous fascist regimes onto it and funded genocidal death squads over there who murdered millions.
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You are trying to ignore the last twenty years by referring to the time before it. But it is very clear there are bad things going on since the 2000s that are being fixed now by criminally investigating EXTREME LEFT NARCO DICTATORS & their enablers
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But of course I will ignore the fact that the CIA and it's right-wing puppet regimes created the narco-trafficking cartels that we know and love today! See how I'm helping you?
I'll even go above and beyond for my fellow fascist sympathizers and ignore how the right-wing US "War On Drugs" literally created the markets that these right-wing narco-dictatorships thrive on to this very day!
Come on... am I not helpful? Where is my Iron Cross?
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Hm you are trying to be quite funny. Maybe try a bit less?
I am in no way talking about before the 2000.
I am talking only about recent history and about almost All countries in South America. They have been cheated by their leaders. Which is obviously what always happens in communism.
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Of course, of course, fascism comrade! It's imperative and completely reasonable to pretend that the world was born anew in the year 2000!
Nothing happened before that! Nothing at all! And anyone who says otherwise must answer to our little Pinochet Erection Club!
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Your rethoric is awful.
pointing to history and ignoring real life today...
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I am moderate, I hate trump. I would vote for left wing in developed countries WITH WORKING ESTABLISHED INSTITUTIONS (northern Europe).
I would however NEVER vote left in undeveloped countries, not because of ideology, but because it's too easy to be infiltrated by farc Cuba venezuela narco sinaloa ruzzian Chinese political pressure etc. They really fucked up MOST South American countries in the LAST TWENTY YEARS.
Do you understand?
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I am moderate
You mean... like Pinochet? Best moderate in the world - according to white supremacist fascist sympathizers trying to pretend they're not white supremacist fascist sympathizers!
Please don't stop now, white supremacist fascists sympathizer - oops, I meant to say, "moderate."
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Why would you ever mention pinochet? Nobody ever said anything about his dictatorship here...
He wasn't the one making argentina bankrupt SEVEN times in one década AND over 100% INFLATION EACH YEAR FOR A DECADE! that's the extreme left killing the economy of an entire country.
Tankie more on
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Ahhh, of course, of course, fascist comrade - I shouldn't mention fascist dictators like Pinochet to you just out of the blue like that... we wouldn't want you walking around in public with an erection now, would we?
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Good man, but be aware there are highly organized groups here on lemmy that specifically try to make BAD things sound GOOD (from both extreme left, extreme right and extreme dictatorships).
Unfortunately, if you are not aware or up to date on politics of a dozen countries in an entire continent, you may be swayed by their numbers and intensity.
Try and find a moderate, even scientific or economic, explanation and it's much more likely to resemble the thruth as just reading the highly upvoted comments here, which many times are not factual, but IF and when they are, they are probably presented without context and specifically chosen (cherry picked) to 'prove' a point.
Yes, the Cia and fruit companies did coups in the 19** south america. But more recently, it's been looted by narco dictators. Not just one country, all of them... Extreme right isn't the solution but it is a REACTION and south Americans are NOT racist so the worse part of the extreme right isn't even present there.
There is a lot more nuance but there is SOOOO MUCH proof that all of the left wing president's of a whole list of countries have taken money from corruption in gov project and drugs.
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I don't understand why people in the US fall for that take. Socialism did take root in the US - that's the whole reason they had to invent police and alphabet organisations to crush it.
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My man, I'm Finnish.
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I’m Finnish.
Sooo... you have less of an excuse.
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Less of an excuse to quote a well known quote?
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Absolutely. Americans can, to a limited degree, hide behind the excuse that they are the most propaganda-drenched people on the planet.
Can you?
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It's a ~famous quote. Do you think a quote reflects my personal views on something? Should I perhaps go about and edit quotes to my liking?
Secondly, "take root" is ofc metaphorical, and we could argue the semantics of what constitutes "taking root". It's clear that at the very least if it took root, it lost to some degree to another thing that took root (like a corporate kleptocracy) and while no-country is perfect clearly the countries with much better social programs has had this metaphorical plant of socialism bloom a bit more.
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Should I perhaps go about and edit quotes to my liking?
No. Just pick ones that actually stand up to scrutiny. I guess you don't know where the term "redneck" (as it's used in the US, of course) actually comes from, do you?
It’s clear that at the very least if it took root, it lost to some degree
Absolutely not. It was actively destroyed. Do you really think they invented internal political police organisations like the FBI to "fight crime"?
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Absolutely not. It was actively destroyed. Do you really think they invented internal political police organisations like the FBI to "fight crime"?
You seem to be having issues with metaphors.
Who honestly gets that pissed off at a quote? I guess a temporarily embarrassed millionaire.
When someone says "let them eat cake" do you actually jump in with "actually there's a lot of diabetics in the US population and type II diabetes is a known national issue, so actually they shouldn't be eating cake, they should eat at moist wholegrain if they eat any bread, you see wholegrain actually keeps your blood glucose steadier for longer. And she never even said it, that's a mistranslation! "
Or would you perhaps understand there's a specific thing that's relayed though that meme?
" dO YoU rEAlLy tHiNk fBi fights crime? wHaT aN iDIoT1!! tHeYrE a GoVeRNmeNt cOnSPiRaCY aGaInST sOciAlIsm, noT aCTuAL lAw eNfORcEmEnT"
Go home to grow a mustache, boy-o.
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You seem to be having issues with metaphors.
Appealing to my (alleged) lack of understanding of metaphors does not change the fact that you - unironically - attempted to explain history using a quote that can be easily disproven.
Or would you perhaps understand there’s a specific thing that’s relayed though that meme?
So are you or are you not cogniscent of the fact that your silly quote misrepresents history?
noT aCTuAL lAw eNfORcEmEnT
Go home to grow a mustache
Mustaches are easy - backbone isn't. I hope it won't prove impossible for you.
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"Attempted to explain history"
So you think QUOTES are my personal theories?
It doesn't even misrepresent history. Socialism having been purposefully suppressed by some isn't mutually exclusive with the sentiment of the quote.
The existence of the red scares doesn't mean that the people that were influenced by them actually weren't. Which is essentially your argument.
Since you want to be that anal and asinine about this, tell me, what qualifies as "taking root" in a society? Oh and I demand clear metrics based on the SI-system. How deep are the roots? How thick? What's the strain?
Perhaps it's hard for you to understand, but socialism is a political ideology and an economic system. Not a vascular plant.
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