Socialism @lemmy.ml woland @lemmy.world 2y ago

In your opinion, why do so many socialists seem to have a hard time criticizing the Chinese/Russian regime?

Sorry if this question seems inflammatory or uninformed, it comes from a place of simple curiosity.

While getting into socialist theory, partly through breadtube content, I often stumbled upon creators/commentators/writers who absolutely crucify the US (rightfully so in many regards), but either justify wrongdoings of the CCP/Russian regime or outright support them.

To me it seems absolutely incongruous to claim socialist ideals for oneself but to champion authoritarian regimes that have ties to Socialism merely semantically or through some spurious historical traditions.

Can you enlighten me about this? Thank you.

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I really don't know as I can only speculate. While China and Russia are authoritarian society, this criticism could be leveled at Amurica as well. Look at policing in the US and how it is paramilitary. Look at the way we very arbitrarily define what free speech is; largely depending on the amount of money you have. The more money you have, the freer you are. I don't have praise for China and Russia because their proletariat are suffering too. China is really communist in ideals only. It's really single-party plutocracy. China could nominally be considered economically capitalist.

Isn't the idea behind communism and socialist that everyone leads a better quality of life and that we all participate to help each other? My impression is that it should be a very egalitarian and horizontal society versus an authoritative hierarchy. Let's face it, there's no such thing as benevolent dictator.
- Isn’t the idea behind communism and socialist that everyone leads a better quality of life and that we all participate to help each other?
  
  The CPC has lifted 800 million people out of poverty: https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2022/04/01/lifting-800-million-people-out-of-poverty-new-report-looks-at-lessons-from-china-s-experience.
  
  You can say whatever else you like but it sounds like hundreds of millions of people in China are leading better lives while half the west is homeless (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-20/queensland-homelessness-up-22-per-cent/102113366), becoming increasingly reliant on food banks (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/60-rise-use-of-food-banks-programs-canada-2023-1.6711094) and developing nineteenth century diseases due to malnutrition (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/victorian-disease-gout-rickets-vitamin-d-mumps-scurvy-measles-malnutrition-nhs-hospital-admitted-a8795686.html). Meanwhile, the main group whose living standards have dropped in China are the bourgeoisie, the feudal lords, and Western and Japanese colonisers.
  
  There are over 90 million members of the CPC: https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202106/1227455.shtml. Sounds like millions of people are participating in helping each other alleviate the fuck out of poverty.
  
  Is China perfect? Of course not. Are there discontents? Very probably. Does this pale in comparison to the fact of hundreds of millions of people now have housing, healthcare, and education? Absolutely.
  
  Edit: typo.
  
  There's no denying that life for the everyday Chinese citizen is fairly decent. I'm thinking of the unfortunate people in work and re-education camps. I'm no fan of authoritarianism of any kind.
  
  I assume you're talking about Xinjiang? How are you defining 'work camp' or 'education camp'? How would you propose that China put a stop to US-backed terrorism in the region? Would this have been more or less effective than the CPC's response (considering that there is more-or-less no more terrorism in the region and living standards have shot up)?
  
  Could the CPC have alleviated the poverty of 800 million people without exercising class power through state authority?

34 comments