10mo ago

Tipping culture npcs

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Tipping service workers is one of the very few times in our life when we can say "The people directly serving me deserve to get paid more, and while I can't raise their wage, I can at least make sure they're getting paid well while they serve me" and the fact that people are upset about that and actively refuse to tip is just crazy to me.
Like, there is no ethical consumption under capitalism, but tipping generously is one of the times when we can come pretty close! Maybe instead of having a $70 meal on the brink of a recession, have a $50 meal and tip up to the $70 that's in your budget?
- Are you tipping 50%?
  
  I aim for 25-30% tip when I get standard service and when there aren't any comped apps/drinks/desserts. If the server is amazing or if they're giving us free stuff, I give more. 50% is very rare for me to hit, but I did leave 50% at a family dinner a few weeks ago.
  Why did you ask about 50% specifically?
  
  Yeah, either that's pretty dumb or you're pretty wealthy.
  A standard tip is 15%. Up to 20% is reasonable. Anything more is generosity, and should never be expected.
  The thing about inflation is that 15% of a larger number is a larger number. Inflation is built in, and you don't need to add it twice.
  Not everybody can be remembered as the guy who gives good tips. That's not how it works.
  
  Anything more is generosity,
  Nah bro... It's a lie. If you were to trust the % ratio of people in these threads that are leaving 30+% tips, then the wait staff would be rolling in dough. Especially with food prices going up like they have.
  
  I make $1 above minimum wage in Los Angeles, so I'm wealthy in a global sense but poor in a local sense. I just live a frugal life with few expenses or vices beyond gaming and smoking, and that's what enables me to tip generously and give to mutual aid groups. I probably eat out less often than the average American, and I don't own a car, but I'm OK with losing those things. I am able and willing to make those sacrifices, so I do so. If you're not able or not willing to make those sacrifices, that's your choice, but don't take the consequences of your choice out on the people who are on the bottom rung of society. That's just gross.
  
  Tipping 15% isn't "taking your choice out" on anyone. 15% is a fine and normal tip.
  
  Maybe it used to be decades ago when we first formed our opinions about this stuff, but times have changed since then. Rent has done nothing but go up, while the federal minimum wage has been $7.25/hour since 2009 and the federal tipped minimum wage has been $2.13/hour since 1991. That 15% you gave in 2010 was used for cigarettes and drinks after work, maybe coffee the next morning, maybe putting a little bit into savings or paying for college. Today, that 15% is used for rent. Rent and gas. Rent and gas and maybe childcare. Tipping more than 15% is our way to actually tell someone that they deserve more than just the necessities--and I don't mean telling them with words or with comments on Lemmy, I mean telling them with action.
  
  I can't bring my self to encourage people to work stupid fucking jobs that pay $2.13 or whatever. Have some fucking self respect.
  
  Whether you respect them or not, those jobs still must exist until they are automated away. Casual dining and fine dining restaurants can't operate without servers--if that was possible, The Invisible Hand Of The Free Market would have eliminated that position centuries ago.
  
  I'm saying they need to have some respect for themselves and refuse bullshit ass pay like that. And the vast majority of civilized nations have servers just fine without tipping/bull shit poverty wages. Service is better too.
  
  I understand what you're saying, and what you're saying is only concerned with individuals, not systems.
  What I'm saying is that regardless of how many individual people turn that job down, the job listing at that wage will still exist. Eventually, someone who is down on their luck will become desperate enough to take it because they don't have any other options left.
  They could be homeless people trying to afford the deposit on an apartment, or single dads trying to pay for field trips for their kids, or ex-cons locked out of conventional employment trying desperately to earn an honest living, or college students trying to buy one used textbook, or even uneducated twenty-somethings trying to build work history so they can stop working for tips.
  All of those desperate people, the people who have no choice but to tolerate the wage that you have too much self-respect to accept--they deserve nice things too. Their boss is a greedy, insufferable bastard who is willing to pay them the minimum that he is legally required to. If he could pay his employees less, he would do it in a heartbeat. By refusing to tip, you are climbing in to the same boat he's in, no matter what ideology you shout as you clamber over the gunwales.
  
  This is ridiculous amount to tip. Good on you for being frivolous and not caring how much you spend, but understand that by your further escalation of tipping you are directly contributing to the businesses that are getting away with it.
  Not 10 years ago, expected tipping was 10-15%. Now you're throwing 25-30? Or 50? you realize how unstable, unrealistic and how bad a precedent that is setting?
  
  It's not a ridiculous amount to tip, but explaining why it's reasonable requires an understanding of what commodity fetishism is. Are you already familiar with the term? If not, would you be willing to read a description of what it is if I typed one up for you?
  
  No fucking way someone with an understanding of Marxist sociology supports tipping. Not a fucking chance. I'm so confused right now.
  
  Socialist theory is great, but material conditions don't care about our ideologies :) I use Marxism and socialism to help myself understand why I feel so alienated and to help fight those feelings, but I still understand that every worker in America lives as an exploited laborer under capitalism. I'm not wealthy or politically powerful or willing to use violence to enforce my views, so my praxis must be aimed at helping the little people until we have enough of a leftist coalition to take on the bigger issues.
  Essentially, I'm not big enough to change the world for the better all on my own, but I can change the parts of it that I can reach out and touch with my hands, so why shouldn't I?
  
  You should, by not tipping, which will help create positive social change.
  
  spujb@lemmy.cafe typed up the perfect response to this in another thread, let me copypasta their comment for you:
  you are proposing that if we all stop tipping, companies will be motivated to pay their workers; you are correct, this is what would happen if we all stopped tipping at the same time.
  this process is known as collective action. it is incredibly important to remember that collective action only works when it actually happens. in other words, your individual action of not tipping your waiter is ONLY beneficial to your waiter if you can make sure one else tips either.
  do you have this power? (i think you don’t; if you do i beg of you to exercise it lol.)
  now consider who actually holds the power here. at any point, your restaurant’s owner could institute a no-tip policy, thereby ensuring that no one has to tip, ever. several restaurants already have done this, and it works. now, you might (correctly) note that this may gives an unfair advantage to other competing restaurants who do not implement no-tip policy. this is where local and regional policy can come in to help coordinate transitioning to a more helpful model of compensating employees.
  so there’s kind of this imbalance, where yeah technically it’s possible for us as eaters of food to “fix” the tipping problem, but its way way easier for the people in charge (whether that’s government or owners) to fix it, because they have the power of coordination on their side.
  tldr, tip your waiters and advocate for anti-tipping policies if you want to maximize long term benefits for everyone.
  
  Yeah, guess people shouldn't vote in elections either since their vote doesn't single handedly settle the election. What an absurdly stupid position to hide behind.
  Relying on restaurant owners to 'do the right thing' without any incentive to do so is extremely naive. And they just, don't. Look around. They could but they don't.
  
  this is where local and regional policy can come in to help coordinate transitioning to a more helpful model of compensating employees.
  The answer to your criticism is in the very next sentence of the paragraph that you object to.
  
  Your example is a $20 tip on a $50 bill.
  $70 meal to $50 meal is a $20 difference and you said to use the difference.
  I guess 40% is the actual number but it was close enough for a random internet discussion. Lol
  
  A $50 meal has sales tax, as well. Tipping up to $70 means the server gets $15-16-- which is a 33% tip.
  
  You are changing from a $70 meal and a $50 meal to a $50 meal rounding up to $70.
  There is sales tax on the $70 meal at the same percentage.
  
  I'm not sure I understand what you're saying
  
  You forgot that tax would be included at the same rate on a $70 meal as a $50.
  You can’t use tax as an excuse on the 50 since the 70 would have it too.
  
  I guess I don't understand you because I don't understand how your point is relevant. I didn't forget tax because tax isn't relevant to the original image. It only brings up a 25% tip on a total of $70, and "tipping up" to a total sum is never discussed.
  On the other hand, my proposed solution involves "tipping up" to a sum, which means tax must be considered if you're going to take the time to calculate the exact tip percentage.
  And also, "an excuse"? I'm sorry to ask so bluntly, but that word choice makes me wonder: do you view this conversation as a competition?
- It just incentivizes being an asshole. Assholes give zero tips and get to keep more of their money, while normal people have to pay the empathy tax.
- It's sad how much flak you're getting for this reasonable take. I'm lucky enough to be able to afford eating out a couple times a week, and I'm not scared of sharing a bit of my wealth with the neighborhood.
  
  It's the last bit. His first paragraph is a good outlook. Encouraging everyone to tip 25-50% is insane and stupid.
  People tend to vote based on the worst part of a comment.
  
  Please don't put words in my mouth. When did I ever say 50%? Someone else botched their math and got to that number, and I even took the time to explain why their math was wrong. I have only told others to "tip generously", to always include a tip in their budget while dining out, and in your specific case to tip more than 15%. Even in the offhand example I gave that you think is so insane and stupid, it only comes out to a 33% tip. The people who do the lion's share of the actual labor deserve the lion's share of the profits, and there's nothing insane or stupid about that.
  
  Right!? If you're lucky enough to be financially secure right now, tipping can even be seen as a form of mutual aid!

673 comments