2y ago

French state schools turn away dozens of girls wearing Muslim abaya dress

www.bbc.co.uk

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134 comments

This is BS
Let people wear what they want. If they want to wear religious clothing, let them. It’s not hurting anyone. This law, while technically applying equally to all religions is very clearly targeted at a single group that has been persecuted for this before
- Giving religion safe spaces in society normalizes it. Normalizing religion does hurt people. It hurts the mind's ability to think rationally, not to mention all the intolerance that seems to come from it.
  
  I'm really glad all the smug atheists came over from reddit too
  
  Why don't you pray about it?
  
  Because I'm an atheist. I just don't think being one means I'm smarter or more civilised than religious people.
  
  One of us! One of us!
  
  It sucks, I beleave this was the wrong move because its a government acting as a parent to school kids, trying to hevy handedly disrupt that child's religion. Wanna get these kids "free from their opressive religion"? Talk to them as a peer. Social movements are there to do that, even ones that work mainly in the school system.
  Couldn't they've picked a less extreme way of handling this situation than "we are your parents, we think you shouldnt have to dress like that so now you wont".
- It is very efficient at having people talk about it, and temporarily forget all the places missing teachers, the sad state of a lot of school buildings, the lack of recognition (and decent salary) that's been the norm for decades at this point, and actual issues regarding kids.
  
  The law is there to remind that no religious sign or clothe are accepted into the public system. People who disagree with it can go to the private school.
  
  Except it's been extended beyond religious clothing. An abaya is not specifically a religious clothing or something mandated by a religion, it is something worn in some places where people happens to be of that religion. No religious texts calls for it, where other things like burka and headscarfs where more directly linked to islam. Here, it's a dress, that people in arabic countries wear. It's literally fashion police.
  
  Is it a part of the French culture ?
  
  Does it need to be? Like if they want everyone to wear something very specific and French, then they should do uniforms. Until then, no one is required to wear something of "French culture." Like I'm a huge fan of punk and metal. I'm 34 years old and still wear band shirts. It's arguably not the typical culture of my country, but should that matter? Would kids be kicked out of school for that?
  
  I have never seen a student excluded for wearing a group T-shirt in France into the public school. Secularism is a pillar of any modern society, which should not be a source of division but a link between all sensitivities and communities. Abdelali Mamoun, an imam at the Paris mosque, mentions that in Islam there is no religious dress, but that the abaya is an outfit advocated by fundamentalists.
  
  So if the problem is people excluding others because that person practices a different religion, then the problem isn't the person practicing the religion, it's the fuck sticks excluding them.
  Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of religion. I'm fairly anti-theistic. Especially for the Abraham's religion. And out of the three, especially Islam. I am also against the religion telling women how to dress for the reasons they do.
  But I don't think this should be the schools decision. I don't think they should tell kids they can't dress a certain way based on the fact that it's religious. If a kid wants to wear a cross necklace or a shirt that says something about Jesus, cool. A Yamaha? That's fine. I might not personally be for it, and think it'd weird for kids, but also I don't think that's for me or the school to decide.
  Just as I'm against the authoritarian religion telling these girls what to wear
  I'm also against an authoritarian government doing the same.
  "But secularism!"
  Secularism doesn't necesarily mean keeping religion out of everyone's life. Just out of the government and school. Teachers shouldn't preach it. Laws shouldn't be mandated around it. But that doesn't mean no one gets to practice it in anyway shape or form. It just means they don't have any say I no the system based on their religion.
  And banning something because it's also worn by fundamentalist makes it sound even dumber. I was raised Mormon. They wear a lot of things people wear on a lot of occasions. I wouldn't say to ban those types of clothing because the Mormons wear them. That's fucking stupid. No more long sleeve shirts? How about blouses? If a woman happens to like those, too bad apperantly. Fundamentalists also wear them, so now they're no longer allowed.
  "We are banning all religious clothing, but also all clothing worn by religious people."
  
  It's not self-important or pretentious, so no, we have to concede that it isn't part of traditional French culture.
  It is, however, part of the culture of these French people.
  
  Above all, it is an attack on secularism.
  France is the country of human rights, it protects by the right of asylum any person who is the victim of persecution in his country. The School of the Republic allows any dress, as long as it is not proselytising.
  This prohibition is not compatible with private life, freedom of religion, the right to education and the principle of non-discrimination. This dress is part of a logic of religious affirmation. It is compulsory for women in Qatar. There is no evidence that a student in France is forced or not to wear the abaya.
  This story of the abaya illustrates a question that runs through the whole of society: the question of boundaries. It seems increasingly difficult to impose rules, to apply them, without running the risk of being accused of authoritarianism.
  
  If someone wearing religious garb is an attack on secularism, your institutions suck and that's where your focus should be.
  
  I don't see any argument in your comment.
  
  I'm saying France's institutions either can handle religious garb, in which case they are needlessly persecuting people, which is objectively evil, or they can't, in which case the French are focusing on the wrong things and should fix their institutions.
  
  Nobody is persecuted.
  67 women did refused took off their abaya.There is about 3 millions students in France. They still can join religious private schools if they don't want to go to the public school.
  
  This is exactly my problem with this. Regardless of your position on the issue it's just a diversion to get us all riled up.
- You mean targeting a group that is forcing clothing?
- Oh I see, you're actually just a blatant racist. That explains why you expect others to give a shit about your opinions on certain jokes too I suppose.
  I'm definitely a weirdo, I'll give you that. But you're a genuine scumbag so I'll take weirdo all day long :) x
  You know who are really the fucking worst? Racists.
  
  If you wanna split hairs to justify your hateful behaviour then go for it. Thankfully most of us will see it for what it is.
  
  Racism is not just for a person's nationality or whatever your twisted definition is anyway, but when it comes to religion and race there is a blurring.
  Judaism is a religion too, but you think anti semitic people aren't racist?
  Racism is attributing negative traits to people based on their perceived belonging to cultural, biological, religious, national origin, and to allow this to legitimate their subordination.
  You sub human stain you :) x

134 comments