US ends penny-making run after more than 230 years
Pennies today cost nearly four cents each to make - more than twice the cost of a decade ago.
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I wasn't saying I thought that was your actual position. I was saying that your actual position made as much sense as that.
There's no difference in kind between rounding to the nearest penny or rounding to the nearest nickel. It's the exact same thing, and the question is just "where do you draw the line"?
So should the line never change no matter what? Regardless of any real life implications the line is drawn exactly where it was meant to be by God at the beginning of time and it is devoid of context or reason?
If we had massive deflation to the point where tracking to the fractional cent made sense, I would argue that it might be worth printing halfpennies again. But we don't. And the idea that companies are going to be robbing you of pennies is no more or less reasonable than the idea that they are robbing you of fractional pennies.
Hell, there's a real chance it'll go the other way in a lot of cases, as stores will start marking things as $X.95 instead of $X.99. Someone else did the math based on what economists projected the cost to consumers would be, and it came out to 2¢ per person per year. Not exactly a staggering number.
The fact of the matter is that we have to occasionally re-figure at what granularity it's worth tracking our fractions of a dollar to. Inflation will always be inflating, and in a few hundred years when a loaf of bread is $250 the idea that we would track fractional dollars will seem as antiquated as the halfpenny does now.
A lot of words for a simple concept:
We need pennies because we figure everything to the penny. We don't need half pennies because nobody figures anything to the half cent.
The wealthy want their pennies, and I want mine, too. Any other concept is just those with the money trying to steal from the citizens, AGAIN.
But we used to figure everything to the half cent. That's my point. We stopped figuring it to the half cent when we got rid of the half cent coin.
In the same way, we would stop figuring things to the whole cent if we got rid of the penny.
As an example, let's say I wanted to buy an item that was $1.75, but it was 50% off. How much does that cost? In reality, it should be $0.875, but we don't track to the half penny, so we just call it 88¢.
Or, if you buy something for $1.50, but there's a sales tax of 3%, that item will be $1.545 after sales tax, but they just round it to $1.55.
They're already rounding your numbers up. That's already happening. The only reason it feels different is because we "don't track fractional pennies," which is only true because we got rid of the coins that allowed us to track fractional pennies.
If we got rid of the coins that let us track individual pennies, we would also stop tracking all exchanges to the individual penny, and simply round to the nearest 5¢.
Which, in many cases, could actually work in your favor, I might add. If you bought something and the total was 1.52, they would simply round it down to $1.50. Sales tax law varies state to state, but that it's how the vast majority of states handle fractional pennies already, so precident indicates it would be that way for rounding to the nearest 5¢. E.g. if sales tax is 2%, and you bought something for $1.19, that comes out to $1.2138, but most states round that to $1.21, saving you 0.38¢ (38 one hundredths of a cent).
I understand all of that, but for most of our nation's existence, we figured everything to the penny, and created the economic engine that pretty much rules the world, based on that penny. To suddenly change that, would be like saying we're going to get rid of the millimeter, and round up all measurements to the nearest centumeter, because it will be easier.
And like I keep saying, while we are dealing in nickels, the wealthy will still be dealing in pennies, and stealing all our rounded up pennies that we decided were too expensive, because they convinced ignorant dipshits like out president think it costs us 2.3 cents every time we use a penny.
I think it was Andrew Carnegie who said that rather than making a lot of money on a few big deals, it's better to make a small sliver off of something everybody uses. This is a perfect example. We see it as only a penny, but the Sociopathic Oligarchs know that a few rounded up pennies a day from every citizen, will add up to a massive fortune very quickly, and then it will just become normal revenue forever.
There's a reason this is happening during a Trump administration. We're being robbed, and we're just standing here while they stick their hands directly in our pockets.
The problem with your meter analogy is that the length that a meter is measuring isn't slowly shrinking. If, in 50 years, instead of my room being 5 meters across it was instead 50,000 meters across, then yeah, I'd probably recommend we start measuring rooms in kilometers. And whereas I would care if you told me my 5mx5m room was actually 4.5mx4.5m, I probably don't care that my 49999.5mx49999.5m room is missing that exact same half meter.
And think of it this way. If Walmart (or any other store) were to, instead of "stealing your extra pennies by rounding up to the nearest 5¢," simply raise the price of all your groceries by 2ish¢, would that change your buying habits? Would you suddenly refuse to buy your groceries or go drive to another store because they raised the cost by 2¢? Probably not. So, if that extra 2¢ was super meaningful to the bottom line, they could already steal it from you. They don't need the pretense of rounding.
This has been proposed for a long time, and it's been luck of the draw which administration chose to do it. You're letting your hatred of Trump make you jump through irrational hoops to try and justify why this has to be a bad thing, because they idea that it could possibly be good, even by purest luck, is a threat to your identity as a person.
Or maybe not. Maybe I'm just armchair phycologist-ing. But your stance isn't a reasonable one. If in the future an apple costs $5000 and we're still printing the penny, there's no logical framework for keeping the penny. It would take 500,000 pennies to buy an apple. You'd have to bring in a pallet of pennies to buy it. If you think we should keep printing the penny at that point, then I don't think we'll ever see eye to eye.
But if you do agree that once apples are $5000 a piece we can stop printing the penny because it has no use, then we're just arguing about where/when the line is to get rid of the penny, not that the line exists at all. And if that line exists, I think it's fairly obvious on its face that we're overdue.
When apples cost $5000, we'll talk.
The examples your are using are all distant future hypotheticals, and don't address the real issue, which is that while there has been talk about retiring the penny for many years, the ONLY reason that it is happening NOW, is because the MAGAs have figured out how to game this situation for their own advantage, almost certainly at our expense. It's the ONLY reason they do ANYTHING.
And I'm not saying that because I hate Trump and any other MAGA PedoCons, I'm saying it because it's true, and we ALL know it.
Brother, apples already cost over 60x what they did when the halfpenny was done away with. I think we're at the point where the discussion is warranted.
But really, there's a bigger problem here, and it's that you've let your hatred of the current administration blind you. You sound like the person who's saying that the only reason that the Democrats would do something good is because they're secretly using it as a front to harvest adrenochrome.
As hard as this may be for you to hear, there are still in fact bipartisan issues in this country that everyone, regardless of party, agrees with. Fewer every year for sure, in this increasingly tribalistic landscape, but they do in fact still exist, and this is one of them.
There's a list of things that we've had bipartisan support for under the Trump administration. Legislation to fight phone scammers. Legislation to lower drug prices. The First Step Act, that helped a lot of non-violent federal prisoners get released from prison and reintegrated into their communities. His work to push against TikTok and other Chinese state controlled information networks in the US.
These are all things that Democrats also support and are pushing for. These are all things that have been good that this administration has done.
Now, all that is wildly, and don't mis-hear this, WILDLY, overshadowed by the blatant evil, hate, cruelty, and corruption of this administration.
But if you're so caught up in the "everything the person on the other team does automatically has to be bad because they're wearing a red shirt instead of a blue shirt," mindset, you stop being a voice to consider seriously. You will throw all logic and reason to the wind because it's an attack against your identity to acknowledge that the other side can sometimes agree with you. It makes it where you have to imagine some sort of outlandish, deep state conspiracy to explain why the opposition is on your side about something, because you refuse to accept the obvious. Sometimes there are just issues that aren't terribly political and almost all semi-reasonable people just kind of agree on it.
You said that you're not against it because you hate MAGA. And maybe you're right. Maybe I've misread you. But it's clearly not true that we "all know it," as most people in this thread seem to disagree with you. And if you aren't automatically against everything from this administration just because of who they are, then you should be able to produce an example of something they've done that you support? I've given a list above, so feel free to pick from there. But are you willing to agree that the broken clock can indeed be right twice a day, or is the idea of saying that this administration did a single good thing too much of a threat to your identity?
It is a perfectly normal moral response to despise an administration whose core values are treason, greed, corruption, pedophilia, rape, misogyny, racism, xenophobia, bigotry, incompetence, and ignorance. There is nothing wrong with acknowledging those FACTS, and making the decision to believe that ANYTHING that comes out of this administration, and assume that ANYTHING they do is motivated almost primarily by either greed or cruelty.
And I think we've reached the impasse.
I agree with you that this administration is evil. We have the same opinion of them. We're on the same side in that regard. And I'm not even saying you're wrong to despise them. I agree that's normal and even right.
But when you decide to begin rejecting reality. When you start calling bad things good and good things bad. When you start ignoring the evidence of your own eyes and justifying conspiracy theories because your hatred is more important than the truth. That's when you lose me. And based on this thread, it seems like that's where you're losing most people. And hurting your own cause.
All I'm saying is that this administration is so beyond evil and normal, that I immediately reject EVERYTHING that they say or do, and I do it unapologetically. They will NEVER get the benefit of the doubt from me.
"Oh, I voted for Mr. Hitler because he'd be good for the economy. You can't blame all that Jew killing stuff on me." - German citizen, 1946
As far as I'm concerned, IF we ever take our country back, one of the first orders of business should to reverse literally EVERY piece of MAGA legislation or EOs. Then pass the right legislation to fix whatever they "fixed," because it's guaranteed that the only solution that was ever considered was the one that makes them all money.
Since you brought Hitler into this... Clearly it's never okay with Hitler. Terribly evil person. If you agree with Hitler on literally anything, you are complicit in the Holocaust.
Hitler loved dogs. Huge fan of them. He had three (well, one and Eva Braun had two). He let his dog sleep in the bed with him. Took it with him everywhere. He was a huge dog lover. Big fan.
Am I required to hate dogs because, by saying dogs are good, I'm agreeing with Hitler? It's clearly a terribly evil thing to agree with Hitler, right? So I think the only possible moral stance is to hate dogs with every fiber of your being? Isn't that right?
That's what your position feels like.