JD Vance suggests trans people pose a “domestic terrorist threat” & FBI plans to target trans people

No shit.

Hey assholes - this is what the "worse of two evils" looks like! Remember it for the next time, if you get a chance again.

Well, it was all worth it because something something "status quo" and we'd have a genocide in Gaza, or something.

I will always understand having grievances for the democratic party because all they do is defend the status quo - I do too - but not voting over that is just fucking stupid. You want to change that? Go to protests, vote in primaries, support local initiatives for ranked choice voting, donate to causes you find actually beneficial, support local politicians that dont just support the status quo, support movements you believe in. If its about Gaza, speak up about that, donate to humanitarian funds, etc. There are ao many things you can do that can impact these things. But refusing to vote does actually fucking nothing for that cause.
There is no world in which more people refusing to vote for Kamala would have gotten us a better president or stopped genocide in gaza. Or really had any impact in any way that wasn't making trump more likely to win. IMO the folks that did that were doing it more for themselves so they could feel morally superior because they didnt vote for the candidate that supported genocide or the "status quo" even though it literally never would have had any impact on either of those things.
(And let's be real - trump is way worse for Gaza than Kamala would have been. I'm sure she wouldn't have done enough, just like Biden, but at least there are voices in that party calling out Israel. Those voices fall far more deaf on this administration's ears)
- Yep, I could not agree more. Seeing the smug and the self-righteous still proudly argle-bargling about Gaza is infuriating, if you ask me. I don't know how many genuinely feel this way when it's online - many could just be paid Russian stooges or bots, for all I know.
  But I do know a few IRL and when it comes up, it's hard to keep my cool. It'd be one thing if they didn't act so goddamned morally superior about it all. I've noticed that all of the ones I know of IRL are not in at-risk groups, other than a few cases being women and some being not active xtians (but raised xtian), if that counts. But all of them are white, all of them are at least middle class, none are gay/trans...probably most have the means to get the fuck out of this country if they really had to, etc.
  
  Trans person here, Harris sucked as a candidate. Her refusal to take any sort of stance against an ongoing genocide isn't the sole reason for her loss but it was certainly a pretty big factor, alongside all of the other positions she didn't meaningfully differentiate herself from Biden on in an attempt to win over non-existent moderate republicans. I don't blame a single person for refusing to vote for her, no one's vote belongs to a party. Being upset at the people who wanted at least one of the candidates running for president to not be actively supporting a genocide, instead of at those politicians, who were actively supporting a fucking genocide, seems at best misguided.
  (Also, of the anarchist/leftist groups and spaces I've visited or been a part of irl, a pretty significant number of the people there have been queer or trans or in some other marginalized group.)
  
  It’d be one thing if they didn’t act so goddamned morally superior about it all.
  People who oppose genocide are morally superior to those who support it. I can imagine that people who want to support genocide while still wanting to pretend they're good people would like that to not be the case.
  
  Yep, I could not agree more. Seeing the smug and the self-righteous still proudly argle-bargling about Gaza is infuriating
  This is a two way street, your lack of perspective makes your self-righteousness just as insufferable.
- One sentence of shit I don't mean, but three paragraphs of shit I do mean.
  And don't bring up primaries. It's just gloating since you know the party doesn't run honest primaries when it pretends to have them at all.
  
  Democratic primaries do have issues, yeah, particularly in the presidential race. But I wouldn't say theyre meaningless in local elections. Still, definitely a lot of issues, but voting in primaries still does far more than refusing to vote in the main election ever would.
  
  But I wouldn’t say theyre meaningless in local elections.
  Henry Cuellar.
I mean we did all witness how maintaining support for Israel was deemed more important.
The Gazan War was so cynically manipulated to votes against Harris that it makes you think if that was all planned too.
- I mean... It kinda was. Netanyahu deliberately stalled peace talks because he wanted Trump in power and he knew that killing Palestinians only hurt Kamala politically, it never hurt Trump because his voters don't give a shit.
- this is not a war, it's been America helping the colonial occupation empty its largest concentration camp
  they could have just stopped sending unlimited bombs to that genocidal occupation, but they chose to anyways in spite of all evidence that it was going to cost them the election.
  
  they could have just stopped sending unlimited bombs to that genocidal occupation, but they chose to anyways in spite of all evidence that it was going to cost them the election.
  They preferred losing the election to telling netanyahu no.

Something something both sides same.

One side, forgive student debt and invest in infrastructure.

Other side, masked agents kidnap off street, send people to concentration camps, and censor free speech.

See, both sides same.

Mocking individuals that you disagree with by reducing all of their arguments down to "both sides same" and setting up a straw man that you easily defeat is not helping anyone.
Our system sucks and we need to take action. Do you disagree with that statement? Would you like to work together with others, in an inclusive fashion, to achieve real solutions?
- I don’t really understand this comment. I was replying to the parent comment with a sarcastic/joke take on the “both sides same” people.
  
  Say somebody writes a few paragraphs about the American political system in good faith.
  If they draw any parallels between the parties, even a little bit, people come out of the woodwork to mock them and reduce their arguments down to "both sides same". Your comment encapsulates such a situation. You led your comment by saying, "Something something both sides same". I just want to make it clear that I agree that there are significant, stark differences between the two parties, and I understood your sarcasm and probable frustration.
  If somebody simply says "both sides same" as their main argument or by itself: you are more than welcome in my book to call it out and push back.
  However, I'm trying to suggest that sometimes the "Something something" could be engaged with if it's in good faith, and it'd advance discourse. I'm also trying to suggest that mocking, while valid, can be unfairly applied. It likely isn't the best use of our energy as it can be divisive.
  
  Ok, I think I see why your last comment made no sense to me. I think you’re trying to have a substantive discussion, but… you’re engaging with a joke. I can’t debate you because I don’t have a serious position, I have a joke.
  
  Fair enough, that's that then - I thought I was engaging with a person. As it must be clear now to you, it's the opposite of funny to me - it's frustrating, though not as frustrating as people who regularly spout both sides rhetoric in bad faith.

I would love to know how many people actually refused to vote for Kamala for the reasons you stated. Obviously it's not zero, but I have seen some variation of the "are you happy now?" comment hundreds of times, and I've never spoken to such a protest voter in real life. Or maybe they're everywhere and they're too embarrassed to admit it.

Instead of pointing to gerrymandering, voter suppression and potential massive election fraud, the mass of comments like yours is starting to feel like straw manning.

My dude, look at the replies to my comments. These people are outing themselves.
Guilty conscious maybe?
Of course they would be more hush hush about their fuck up now. Who but the most imbecilic narcissists would say gleefully as minorities are being shipped end masse to concentration camps that they intentionally refused to act to stop it?
- Who but the most imbecilic narcissists would say gleefully as minorities are being shipped end masse to concentration camps that they intentionally refused to act to stop it?
  I can't help that you intentionally refused to speak up against genocide.
  
  Probably a sign of a guilty conscience.
  
  Centrists experience no guilt as they don't see Palestinians as people.
  Just like they adopted republican immigration policy because they don't see immigrants as people.
  And just like even more centrists than already have are gonna throw trans people under the bus. And for the same reason: if you're not netanyahu, you're disposable.
  
  Good thing there's no genocide now then. Whew. Bullet avoided with Genocide Kamala. Good job bravely standing up and doing nothing.
  
  No centrist cares that I voted for harris; all they care about is that I opposed the genocide they wanted.
  
  I wouldn't know what centrists care about, but you sure seem to be throwing those accusations around at everyone who disagrees with you.
  
  Oh? It was just fine for a solid year to call anyone who opposes genocide a tankie, trumpist, republican, russian, chinese, child, bot, fascist and so on.
  You were trying to convince me to vote for the candidate I voted for in an election that already happened. Ostensibly. Really, you just don't like criticism of the genocide that will define centrism forever. So I don't really give a shit that you're offended by being called a centrist since you're acting like one.

Ok, fine - everyone who didn't vote is irresponsible and unreliable and a bad ally or whatever, and also let's do Fox News' work for them and blame left-leaning emancipatory movements for our problems.

Now what? What viable allies, what options, does this frame of reference leave you with? What are you going to do now?

I've spent a lifetime watching people blame the ones closest to them for their problems, while the real enemy is right in front of them. It's a powerful human impulse, and it's the primary right-wing impulse. I'm not foolish enough to think it's ever going away. I can only hope, like I hope of right-wingers, that you're not too far gone into rage and despair to understand what's going on.

I can only hope that at some point, before it's too late, you'll consider how far a political establishment needs to fall that the people it's supposed to stand for find it less depressing to tune out; that the only people who engage with the system do it to bring in a guy who'll tear it all down. I hope you'll be able to direct your rage at the people who truly deserve it.

I hope you find a way to work with the rest of us. Otherwise, I hope that you're strong enough to fix this yourself.

That's a lot to say people shouldn't be held accountable.
- Sure, let's hold the victims of fascism accountable for the actions of fascists.
  If you'd actually read my comment, you would have realized that you're demonstrating exactly what I was talking about. You want to hold fascists accountable, but you don't have the immediate means to do that. So you turn around and victim-blame your fellow sufferers.
  You're not the first person to fall into this trap. It's the entire reason people voted for Trump - if you can't change the system that's screwing you over, at least you can punish the people around you and call that accountability. I hope we can be smart enough not to do this to each other, but the responses in this thread are making it hard to be optimistic.
  So, ironically, I'm going to tune out of this conversation too, before it crushes me even more. I'm going to try to find hope and courage elsewhere, because I'm all out of it at the moment. To the rest of you, whoever you are, I hope you can find it too.
Ok, fine - everyone who didn't vote is irresponsible and unreliable and a bad ally or whatever, and also let's do Fox News' work for them and blame left-leaning emancipatory movements for our problems.
What I wanted was for the US to not fall to fascism, so I chose the only option that'd realistically prevent that.
You and countless other leftests chose to do jack shit, something we know favors the GOP because of the Electoral College and Gerrymandering to virtue signal.
You all are closer to Fox news than those who voted for Kamala. Our action wouldn't have ended up with fascism. Yours did. You were functionally on the side of fascism when itattered most what side you were on. How does that make you feel?
You can't even claim to be an emancipatory movement because literally ever group you'd want to emancipate is objectively worse of and further from emancipation.
Now what? What viable allies, what options, does this frame of reference leave you with? What are you going to do now?
Viable allies are whoever we can trust. Whoever either voted for Kamala or doesn't let their ego dominate their narrative and can actually admit wrong for not doing it, or encouraging others in swing States to do it by sounding the alarm.
You lot covered in your own tears and piss after telling all of us to fuck off when we needed you the most aren't allies. You're a liability at best. You couldn't be trusted when it was convenient for you. What makes you think you could be trusted when its hard for us all, when you can't even put aside your ego to admit your side was wrong?
I've spent a lifetime watching people blame the ones closest to them for their problems, while the real enemy is right in front of them
You all proved last November you were never closest to us. Maybe not even close in general. What is there left for us to do than to adopt this mistrust as a survival mechanism so you all don't fuck everyone over for your own egos next time we need to stand?
You keep whining that people are blaming you all for not voting, and not asking yourself why that might be. How you all fucked up to earn this mistrust and disrespect. Self reflect for once in your life.
It's a powerful human impulse, and it's the primary right-wing impulse. I'm not foolish enough to think it's ever going away. I can only hope, like I hope of right-wingers, that you're not too far gone into rage and despair to understand what's going on.
Hollow words from a hypocrite who embodied not understanding what's going on in time when it mattered most last year. Millions with the same idiotic mentality, and inability to self reflect on their own betrayal of all marginalized peoples.
Again, self reflect. You all earned this mistrust. This is on you all, not us.
I can only hope that at some point, before it's too late, you'll consider how far a political establishment needs to fall that the people it's supposed to stand for find it less depressing to tune out
I can only hope that one day you and every child with this same defeatest mentality realize how I credibly stupid it was that you use being demoralized and depressed as an excuse to surrender to fascism that reigned in an era that made the prior one look, not depressing, but like a fucking progressive paradise in comparison.
Again
No strategic vision
No strategic foresight
In really, no thought or logic behind your actions at all.
that the only people who engage with the system do it to bring in a guy who'll tear it all down. I hope you'll be able to direct your rage at the people who truly deserve it.
That's not true. Millions of people who can actually accurately call themselves progressives and leftists stood up to choose the best viable option for the marginalized people. Do not project your fundamental character flaw unto others.
Again, put your fucking ego aside for a moment.
I hope you find a way to work with the rest of us. Otherwise, I hope that you're strong enough to fix this yourself.
And here we are at the neo-liberal gaslighting y'all so fervently foam at the mouth at when the Dems do it.
Just like the establishment Dems you hate. You completely abandoned everyone who needed you to act when you had the position to do so at least in some way.
And now that you actually see the threat when its FAR too late to avoid, you're demanding unity and alliance.
Fuck that.
You're a liability, not an ally. Until you and everyone who thinks just like you gets their heads out of their asses and learns to sacrafice their egos for the good of others, we are in more danger with you than without you.
You all have proven I disputably that you cannot be trusted or relied on to do your part.
Put your ego aside for once. Nobody should be allying with you until you do that. Until then, you bring them more danger than help.
- This is what dividing the left looks like. Thanks for the example, I hope you reconsider your stance and be more inclusive moving forward.
  
  They're a die-hard Democrat posing as a leftist her as a rhetorical tool.
  I skimmed through several of their extraordinarily long diatribes and I didn't catch any criticism of the Democratic party, much less Kamala. They reserve all of their anger for other users and voters they deemed insufficiently loyal.
- My friend - I didn't reply to defend myself from your arguments, or to demand anything from you. I replied because I've known people who express this level of anger and hate, and I've seen this kind of thinking lead them to extremely dark places. And that includes myself.
  This is not concern trolling, I'm not trying to win or get a rise out of you here, and I'm trying my best not to sound condescending (admittedly without much success) - Please take better care of yourself. Please don't push away the vast majority of people who do not share your rage. And please, for the love of all that is holy, touch some grass before you give yourself an aneurysm.
  I told myself earlier that I'd stop replying, but I felt the need to give this one last try with more direct communication. I'm going to commit this time, if only for the sake of your blood pressure. Wishing you well, genuinely.

You guys still cant accept that your candidate just sucked? No? Still blaming leftists and minorities?

Anyone who didn't vote against trump deserves the blame
- What good does the blame do? People are ants compared to those that run in a democracy seeking election to represent the people in our current system.
  I'd like to request that you do your best to find it in you to soften your heart towards others who, in any other context outside of this past election, would likely be seen as allies to all of humanity for their commonly expressed sentiment and principles.
  You see them through a negative lens right now and your feelings and perspective are both valid, but division is counterintuitive to movement building and community. Dishing out blame like it's candy only hardens your heart more and has the potential of hardening the hearts of others.
Actual leftists voted for the best viable option for marginalized groups, which was Kamala.
Pathetic virtue signalling asswhipes who don't actually give a damn about marginalized groups didn't vote or voted for a non-viable third party. An action that objectively helped the fascists win given how the Electoral College and Gerrymandering typically works.
You aren't a leftist, you helped the fascists. Congrats, you fucked over everyone the left is supposed to care about.
- So anyone who doesn't agree with what you're saying is virtue signaling, and anyone not behaving in accordance to your proclamations, is a fascist?
  Hahahahahahahahahahahaha

I voted for harris. This will not matter to any centrist, since I spoke out against their only policy.

The anti-genocide left was too insignificant to listen to, according to the pro-genocide center. Now they're solely to blame for her loss, according to the pro-genocide center.

It can't be both. Either they're too insignificant to listen to, in which case they're too insignificant to blame, or they're to blame, in which case they're kingmakers and you should have listened to them.

Best thing we can do is to stop blaming and focus on solutions. Holy fuck this is frustrating and tedious.
- If centrists were interested in solutions, they wouldn't be blaming the wing of the party that wants them.
The anti-genocide left isn't to blame for the loss.
The faux anti-genocide left who refused to vote for the best option for the people of Palestine on a very shitty election (Kamala) helped Trump with their inaction.
Trump, who by the way, has supported the genocide being hyper exacerbated compared to that of Biden and Kamala.
The Palestinians are objectively worse off now than they were under Biden, and most likely would have been under Kamala.
- The anti-genocide left isn’t to blame for the loss.
  Then stop blaming them.
  the best option
  The second worst option. Genocide supporters aren't the best anything. Except to other genocide supporters.
  The Palestinians are objectively worse off now than they were under Biden, and most likely would have been under Kamala.
  Why do you keep trying to convince me to vote how I voted in an election that already happened? Oh right, you never gave a shit who won, you just want unquestioning support for the genocide supporter you want over the genocide supporter you were willing to accept as long as no one had the opportunity to vote for a candidate who doesn't support genocide.
- Trump, who by the way, has supported the genocide being hyper exacerbated
  Dead is dead. There is no exacerbated. Harris clutching her pearls instead of planning a resort would make absolutely zero difference.

But then how will they learn?! /s

Virtue Signalling leftists when boycotting voting for Hillary didn't turn the Dems left so why the fuck would boycotting Kamala do it?
- Hillary explicitly told the left that she didn't need their votes... I guess, in hindsight, she was wrong.
  
  Irrelevant to what I said. Reread it.
  As leftists, we need to act in the best interests of the working class. If that means electing an arrogant cunt over a demented fascist, that means electing an arrogant cunt over a demented fascist.
  The left refusing to vote for Hillary in 2016 didn't move the party left. We didn't get Bernie, we got Biden.
  Why? Because a fascist presidency didn't make people think "hey, we need a real progressive for real change", it made people scared and panic vote for who they perceived was the "safest" vote, which was Biden.
  History will repeat itself (assuming we even have a fair enough election in 2028, let alone 2026).
  
  americans are stupid, a side-effect of decades of neglecting their primary and secondary education systems, they will only learn through direct personal pain...and now that pain is coming.
  the best move to support/protect those effected, and to make sure they know whose helping them and whose out to get them
  
  you're not a leftist if you're actively choosing to advocate and vote for the Liberal presidential candidate. -That makes you a liberal, again, not a leftist.
  
  Leftists actually cared enough about the working class and all marginalized persons that they actually bothered to research what the best viable option was for those groups, and accurately determined it was Kamala.
  Fake leftist virtue signalling pansies who's support for such groups is entirely hollow and self serving on an almost narcissistic level instead boycotted voting for Kamala and quire literally bent over and gaped wide to allow fascists to win the election.
  The only fake leftists here are you.
  It is your legacy that you spoke for no one when it mattered most. Not ours.
  
  Leftists actually cared enough about the working class and all marginalized persons that they actually bothered to research what the best viable option was for those groups, and accurately determined it was Kamala.
  I did. I voted for her. She was the second worst of two pro-genocide anti-worker candidates. She wasn't a "best" anything.
  
  "Best viable option" never translates to good.
  You can hate Kamala. I fucking hate Kamala. Hated her before 2024. But I cared and care about the people who are now suffering under Trump. Their lives weren't worth sticking it to the Dems.
  
  “Best viable option” never translates to good.
  Then don't call her a synonym for good.
  You can hate Kamala. I fucking hate Kamala.
  She didn't support genocide hard enough for you.
  
  That's not how words work. "best option" mean the better of the available options. It doesn't mean any of them have to be positive.
- Every year the DNC says "we got less votes this year! Must be the centrists voting for republicans, we gotta be more moderate!" and then somehow those folks turn around and say "the democrats are too moderate, if enough of us don't vote, the DNC will see they are losing support and realize they need to come back left!"
  
  When they win, they take it as a mandate to move to the right. When they lose, they assume it's because they weren't far enough to the right.
- Virtue Signalling leftists
  You sound like a republican here. For good reason.

It was never about trans. No one engaged in this line of thinking ever gave a fuck about individuals.

To think a political party is an ally... Yeah, I got a bridge to sell you.

Kamala sucked bro. She started out with a promise of change, which saw her soar to knew heights as her campaign reached $1bn+ funding from a large proportion of individual donors.

But then around the DNC, she became Biden 2.0. And that turned people off because Americans had just kicked his ass off the campaign.

Politicians don't automatically get to have our vote. They earn it through campaigning. The mentality of "Vote Blue No Matter Who" has unironically led to the Democrats racheting towards the Right. It happened in 2016, and it happened in 2024.

Voting AGAINST something, which Kamala made a majority of her campaign about, appears to not be as good of a rallying cry as voting FOR something.

I voted for Kamala btw. But I criticized her from start to finish in hopes to extract more concessions that she ended up allowing.

Both sides are not the same. Kamala would clearly have been less authoritarian and evil. Unfortunately the Democrats are currently so shit that voting them in, even repeatedly, won't fix this mess. That's because the current authoritarian form of the GOP would continue to sit at the sidelines, gathering support via populism for another term or terms, until it gets voted in, because the Democrats appease them at every turn and allow themselves to be dragged to the right on any and every issue the GOP chooses. This doesn't work and the GOP end up winning. There were four years in between Trump 1 and Trump 2 and they did nothing to tell a story which counters the fascist othering of LGBT, brown and immigrant people (which will expand to "the left" , then anyone who disagrees with anything they say, and then finally members of their own club, as fascism always does). The GOP have changed the game, and the Dems are still playing by the old rules. Until someone like Bernie or AOC gets control, the actual quickest way out of the current tragedy is to let fascism eat itself, a process that may cost literally millions of lives. But sadly, voting in a Democrat gov is no longer a way to avoid this.

They don't care because this doesn't affect them. That's why they didn't vote, they always want other people to make their decisions for them.

Only when you have felt oppression and seen it with your own eyes do you understand the impact.

I can't wait until the right feels ACTUAL oppression and not just the made up shit they come up with for pity.

You are 100% right, and 100% useless. I'll bet you were one of those morons who thought they were helping Harris win by scolding voters who were angry about genocide. Brilliant politics there, berate voters until you get your way.

You are 100% right, and 100% useless.
Fuck this bullshit, why do they get a free pass? They caused this, they need to take accountability for what they did.
The voters "angry about genocide" ABSOLUTELY deserve to be criticized for their unbelievably stupid or selfish decision. Those people fall into two camps 1.) extremely stupid and short-sighted or 2.) Inauthentic self-centered assholes who care more about how cool and rebellious they appear than they do about Palestinians.
You expect us to believe you care about Palestinians when you helped bring Trump to power? You intentionally made things worse for Palestinians just to make a political point. That's fucking despicable.
- Fuck this bullshit, why do they get a free pass?
  OK, got it. No free pass. What are talking about here, on a scale from harsh finger wag to mass executions?
  You expect us to believe you care about Palestinians when you helped bring Trump to power?
  The only vote I ever made that assisted Trump was a vote for Biden in 2020. I voted Harris, and you are clearly not trying to follow what I'm saying. Quit wasting my time.
  You intentionally made things worse for Palestinians just to make a political point.
  Such irony. This is exactly my criticism of your misguided efforts to help Democrats by berating voters. Your arguments and especially your attitude aren't sending the message you think they are.

I sleep like a baby knowing I cast no vote for a genocidal administration nor a fascist one.

No, really, I sleep so well.

You just enabled the FAR MORE genocidal administration to kill off not only Palestinians, but now marginalized groups at home.
You objectively helped exacerbate the current genocide and make new ones. Sleep on that.
- Kamala lost. She was unpopular as hell. Accept it. It was her election to win or lose - she was the candidate.
  Focus on what you can do now besides blaming people. Anything will have more of an effect than attempting to make others feel bad.
- I really admire your bold and extremely aggressive stance of "the Democrats aren't the problem, the voters are".
  So brave and forward thinking.
  It's people like yourself who've made the Democratic Party what it is today, congratulations.
  My only regret is that I have but two hands to pat your back with.

Why is this stupidity still being repeated? God, I'm so tired of refuting it. I'm just gonna start calling you stupid and move on.

Just like you did when you passively voted for Trump and your local GOP representatives. What a surprise!
- Tell me more about your fantasy.
  
  You're projecting soooo hard right now lol. Thought you were just gonna call it stupid and move on though. Guess you need more cope.
  I'll take your advice though. Another .ml GOP asset blocked. Lucky me!
  
  You wrote shit about who I voted for with not knowing that. It was a fantasy mate. Nothing more.
  I guess you also don't know how to block people either.
  
  Weird how they projected about you, then said you projected. And then got mad at you for what they did.
  
  You literally are projecting right now. What is this, Republican logic?
.ml, of course lol

The Democratic party didn't fail us, we you failed it.

Edit: better?

I'm trans and I didn't vote for Kamala. Blue state, not like it even mattered. I have zero regrets about it on my part either. Since then all the liberals seem to be busy meeting the moment with capitulation and self-censorship, it's clear they were never allies. I don't care if I end up in a concentration camp, fuck this rancid ass country.

I'm trans and I very much care about not ending up in a concentration camp, please. (And yes I voted for Harris, but for the love of God can we take over the primaries next time, so the neoliberals are the ones holding their nose and voting?)
- can we take over the primaries next time, so the neoliberals are the ones holding their nose and voting?
  liberals will do what they did last time they didn't get 100% of everything they wanted. They'll form a PAC to elect the republican candidate.
- it would be nice if they actually decide to have primaries next time, I'm not holding out hope that elections are going to save us
Since then all the liberals seem to be busy meeting the moment with capitulation and self-censorship, it's clear they were never allies.
It was never about being allies with the liberals. It was ALWAYS about choosing the best VIABLE choice for the working class, for minorities, for women, for our planet.
And y'all dropped the fucking ball.
Even in a garunteed blue state, action I spires action. Discourse even to just a handful, has an echoing effect to someone who can male a difference. But you lot lack any strategic vision or foresight.
I don't care if I end up in a concentration camp, fuck this rancid ass country.
Spoken like someone who hasn't experienced real danger and doesn't even comprehend the real danger their in.
If it means anything, I don't give a fuck what happens to you specifically either. I give a fuck about the millions of innocent people who are now damned to death and suffering. And all of it could've been avoided if more leftists were actual fucking adults and observed the reality before them last November.
- Even in a garunteed blue state, action I spires action. Discourse even to just a handful, has an echoing effect to someone who can male a difference.
  It was the democrats participating in a genocide for over a year in advance of the election that had the 'echoing effect' of making people not want to vote for their disgusting asses. Just being realistic, a trans anarchist in a blue state not voting for bomber harris has literally zero impact on how anyone else voted.
  But you lot lack any strategic vision or foresight.
  You're the one acting like scolding people over votes while the gestapo is roaming the streets is accomplishing anything
  
  It was never about being allies with the liberals.
  They're not credible opposition.
  
  It was the democrats participating in a genocide for over a year in advance of the election that had the 'echoing effect' of making people not want to vote for their disgusting asses.
  The Dems were also the only party that hosted any politicians in power who opposed the genocide.
  Does the GOP have any that oppose the genocide (outside of the JQ like with MTG)? No.
  Was Biden and Kamala gearing to mass deport and arrest anti-genocide activists and demonstrators? No.
  Did Biden and Kamala give Netanyahu the greenlight to fully annex Palestine, and expand the war to include all of their neighbors, Iran and Yemen? No.
  You have to be TRULY delusional to think the genocide is about the same now as it was under Biden.
  You people couldn't, for even a moment imagine it getting worse, even as the entire GOP was painting the picture for you in front of your face. Now its worse, exactly as everyone with a functional brain could for see.
  Your lack of strategic vision and foresight, and let's be real your completely hollow virtue signalling for faux support, is your problem that you've made other peoples' problems.
  Just being realistic, a trans anarchist in a blue state not voting for bomber harris has literally zero impact on how anyone else voted.
  Just being a realist, action inspires action. Complete apathy towards the issue "because I live in a blue state" objectively had an echoing effect onto swing states with other potential blue voters. You aren't escaping culpability with your cope.
  You're the one acting like scolding people over votes while the gestapo is roaming the streets is accomplishing anything
  You're the ones who refused to act when it mattered most and was most easy to do so.
  I'm scolding you because you people enabled this shit to happen to begin with to feed your egos.
  No one who opposes fascism should ever turn to you, or anyone else who participated in the virtue signal boycott, for alliance against fascism. You are untrustworthy and unreliable.
  But hey, cope to protect your ego harder 🤡🤡🤡🤡 Again, I'm sure the feeling you got from virtue signalling is worth the end of any semblance of safety for you and everyone you love.
  They're not credible opposition.
  Not you totally missing the point
  Y'all ain't credible allies, antifascists, or even anarchists for that matter
  
  The Dems were also the only party that hosted any politicians in power who opposed the genocide.
  They didn't protect those incumbents.
  
  They didn't demolish the constitution and start deporting and jailing them either.
  Only one party is doing that to people, and its also the only party that's threatening our democracy.
  Wanted to primary out the pro-genocide Dems? Me too. Now we likely can't because it won't matter when Trump deploys the Nat Guard on election day.
  
  Wanted to primary out the pro-genocide Dems? Me too.
  Lol no you didn't.
  
  ...does it bring you joy playing the blame game with a trans woman for her choices that had an extremely insignificant effect given her circumstances? It seems like it.
  Your blame game accomplishes nothing besides putting that person on edge and letting others know it's okay to also mock and berate people for having principles (in contrast to the Democratic Party). The Democratic Party is free to represent legitimate, common concerns that are apparently significant enough for their voting base to bully anybody who holds them. You are free to push the Democratic Party to represent common sentiment.
  I’m scolding you because you people enabled this shit to happen to begin with to feed your egos.
  Just. Accept. Kamala. Was. Responsible. For. Her. Loss.
  Kamala was the person running - not the person you were responding to.
  Biden shouldn't have held on as long as he did. She should have never ran. There should've been a primary. Her policies were put up far too late. Her policies sucked. Kamala was leaving trans rights up to the states. Kamala was appealing to imaginary moderates. Kamala campaigned with Liz Cheney. Kamala was free to acknowledge the obvious genocide and campaign on stopping it.
  Kamala's vibes were off - and her 92% staff turnover during the first 3 years of her office puts things into perspective. What the actual fuck?
  It's unreal that people are still focused on blaming voters instead of encouraging their preferred party to actually do their best, among anything else. The election was almost a year ago now. Spend your energy elsewhere, especially when the person you are talking to is under attack.
  Spamming clown emojis at a trans person is not productive. I want you to realize that attacking vulnerable people and people with principles is not helping anything. Your actions are not in the spirit of democracy. Votes are earned - they are not deserved or owned. Nobody should be forced into voting against the opposing candidate, they should be encouraged to vote for somebody who represents them.
I'm trans and wish you wouldn't project your not caring onto the rest of us. It only serves to show that you probably haven't experienced anything even remotely close to concentration camps or the related dangers. I did not happily do it with a smile on my face, but I voted for Kamala because I knew that this exact thing would happen if Trump were elected. It was incredibly obvious. Gaza is even more fucked, even more bombed, gestapo is roaming the streets, and we're actively discussing our community potentially getting sent to concentration camps.
But you decided to not even try to prevent it. You decided that because Kamala wouldn't completely stop the genocide in Gaza, that Gaza, immigrants, trans people, and minorities should all suffer even more.
I'm not sure how you still feel good about your protest vote (being in a blue state doesn't excuse it, either. You do not vote in a vacuum, especially when you talk about it online). If we ever get to vote again, I really hope you make better choices and don't get caught up on a single issue. You should be able to choose the lesser of two evils, because if Kamala were elected, we would be in a better position to make actual, valuable change for things like Gaza, trans rights, and progressive reform. Obviously, we can't know how much better of a position, but I can guarantee we would at least not be discussing how we're going to be sent to the camps.
I get that our community is hurting. Please don't make it worse for us because you're apathetic.
- I completely agree on the idea of voting for Harris for harm reduction. But I'm genuinely curious why you think her being elected would put us in a better position to get progressive reform. She showed that she was completely unwilling to back down or change her stance to get elected. Once she had won the election, there really isn't any reason for her to change her stance. Even the idea that she would try to gain popularity to be reelected seems unlikely. Because if we have already proven that we'll vote for someone not because they have good policies, but because they have less bad policies. The next election would be the same. With her most likely running for reelection. And either Trump or some other far right extremist running against her, forcing a repeat of the hypothetical 2024 election where she won.
  It's a rather bleak cycle, that makes it frustrating when people constantly hammer against the voters for not holding their nose and voting for the lesser of two evil, rather than the Democratic party in general for not listening to what their constituents want, and changing to a more populist progressive policy. I don't agree with the protest voters, but I can at least empathize and understand where they're coming from.
  The really depressing thing is that even after losing because of it, we're still not seeing much of a shift within the party. This should have been a wake up call for them. But it seems they still haven't learned their lesson and seem more intent on using the Republican party as a cudgel to beat the population into voting for them, rather than actually adopting policies that make people want to vote for them.
  
  Once she had won the election, there really isn't any reason for her to change her stance
  It would have been used itself as the reason not to listen to leftism since the headline (written by Ezra Klein) would have been "Neoliberalism Shows It Is The Only Winning Strategy For Democrats Again".
- hi, I ended up here in the US as a result of a right wing coup in my home country. I have had relatives with first hand experience of war, civil war, famine. it's not something I take lightly which is why I am so appalled at the Democrats treating Palestinians like they're expendible.
  We don't have a popular vote, due to how the system is arranged my vote hasn't once mattered in decades of electoral participation. You're kidding yourself about the influence of the fediverse if you think my comments had any impact.
  I'm apathetic about voting, I'm actually extremely active organizing in my community against this shit. I find the people scolding about votes while doing fuck-all otherwise to be the ones making it worse.
  
  It's okay to be appalled, it's normal. I'm appalled too. But because of our shitty, two party system, you are basically made to choose between the lesser of two evils in swing states. Choosing to not vote, or to vote for another party risks this exact outcome. While your vote in your state may not have had a direct impact (I'm willing to relent on that for now), what you say online (Lemmy or otherwise) or in person can convince someone in a swing state to also be apathetic, and that's what hurts. It only has to affect one other person in a swing state, and then they'll also spread their apathy to other voters in the state. It's not a huge logical leap to consider.
  When I say that you're apathetic, I'm only talking about your voting habits. I know nothing else about you or what you do. I'm also not sure how trying to show how this behavior could result in our current situation is "making it worse". I'm not trying to be insulting here, but if this apathy continues for the midterms (if they actually happen), it could very well convince some people to also not give a shit. I don't want others in states where it really does matter to see your comments and think it's all good to become entirely apathetic.
  What really got to me was your comment about not caring about getting sent to the camps. Your relatives experiencing pain and trauma is one thing, but to experience concentration camps yourself is another thing entirely. You saying you don't care about that could also be seen as you saying that you don't care about the rest of the community being sent there, as well.
  
  I'm not sure I buy the apathy contagion theory, I have a hard time believing anyone is actually swayed by me.
  frankly the comment about not caring about getting sent to the camps was mostly being edgy to the guy doing the vote scolding like it even makes a difference now. maybe the Democrats would have been less bad overall, but after their past actions I have no reason to expect that Palestinians would be any better off under them.
  my vote is a no-confidence vote in this shitty system and if supporting trans people becomes no longer politically expedient I fully expect that Democrats would cut us loose too.
  
  People can be swayed by you without you ever knowing it, or even without them really even realizing it.
  We can't ever know if dems would've been much better because we lost that chance, but the GOP literally campaigns on being pro-genocide, so we knew where they stood on the issue beforehand. And we got even more confirmation of that now.
  Similarly, we knew that the GOP would do everything they could to villify and condemn trans people. At least the dems didn't fully campaign on it. Since you're in a blue state, I wonder if you have protections that trans people in red states do not? I sure do, in my blue state. The dems here didn't just talk about improving trans rights and protecting us, they actually did it, and have continued to do so. They did the same thing for abortion rights. Of course, not without massive complaints from the local GOP.
  
  We can’t ever know if dems would’ve been much better because we lost that chance,
  The democrats ran on a year+ of genocide, I have no confidence that they would suddenly have a change of heart afterwards.
  The democrats in my state do in fact pass some protections, but do basically nothing about the fundamental economic and housing inequalities that make it almost impossible for red state trans people to safely relocate there. If you're someone who can hustle enough to afford to live here it's relatively safe, but despite all that we still have plenty of right wing democrats triangulating over things like womens sports.
  
  And republicans have run on decades+ of warmongering and genocide. Invading other countries directly.
  I know which one I prefer.
  
  I would prefer they both lose, tbh.
  Also Democrats have had their share of military interventions, and countries they destroyed. Their whole issue with Iraq at the time wasn't that the invasion was wrong, but that they would run it better. The genocidal warmongering is established bipartisan consensus.
  
  Well, yeah, obviously I would prefer that, too. But we don't live in that country.
  And maybe, but one of the two is definitely more "blow up the entire middle east, fuck all of them, turn it to glass" than the other, which is my point.
  
  It’s okay to be appalled, it’s normal. I’m appalled too.
  At the lack of support for genocide.
Absolute alpha tough guy here
- I'm none of those descriptors, I just didnt vote for the genocidal shitheads
yeah but your point of view doesn't count because it doesn't fit within their narrow, convenient narrative.

It's time to get over it and look to the future. She lost. Talking shit isn't helping anybody but you.

Actually I think it's vitally important that voters learn from this. Or you'll all be doomed to repeat this mistake again in the future, if you get the chance that is.
- It's important that the party learns from this.
- But who are these posts talking to? People who were lost in the wilderness for the past 9 months, and just got online for the first time this year? It's just a rage circle-jerk at this point.
- Consider reading about representative democracy.
  In a representative democracy, people don't primarily vote to vote against the candidate they don't like, they primarily vote for the candidate that represents them. Let's get candidates to represent voters and potential voters and relearn that lesson as a society.

Literally all of those people are russian/chinese agitators and you got agitated.

Lesson: make an effort to not get agitated. Learn to meditate or something. You can still have convictions and even get angry, but get angry when needed, not when somebody deliberately makes you angry.

Lemmy is not really big enough yet to attract Russian trolls.
- centrists claim that anyone to the left of netanyahu is a russian troll.
- Perhaps this is a conspiracy theory, but it looks to me like Lemmy was built by Russian and/or Chinese trolls specifically to agitate people against the West. They haven't been attracted to be here, they have been here from the start.
  
  it was created by @dessalines@lemmy.ml maybe they're a Russian troll? I don't think they are, but you could ask them :)
  
  I feel like this has to be a joke. There's a reason Lemmy has a bad wrap for being infested with Tankies, and it starts with Dessalines.
  
  oh they're totally a tankie, I just don't think they were employed by the Russian government.
  
  but you could ask them
  And he would answer truthfully, you think?
Your conspiracy isn't true, mine is!