Politicians Will Not Save Us.

Gavin should absolutely keep trolling trump.

He should not be nominated for president.

OOH OOH I KNOW! We should all argue about if the efforts by [PERSON] to push back on the literal tyrants mobilizing the military against political opponents is actually a good thing or not, and fold our arms performatively if [PERSON] didn't hit EVERY FUCKING CHECKBOX ON THE MASSIVE SCROLL OF INCLUSION AND PERFECT POLITICS.

Because every time we do that... well, we lose miserable and lose more rights and protections, BUT AT LEAST WE CAN BE SMUG THAT WE DIDN'T SETTLE FOR LESS THAN PERFECT.

Vetos a bill to cap insulin prices.
Vetos bills to build social and LGBTQ+ teen housing
Vetos a bill to provide hearing-aids to kids
Vetos a bill to make the rich pay taxes
Ran on a single-payer healthcare system, then immediately backes down
Vetos a bill to let striking workers keep their insurance
Vetos a bill that banned employers from retalliating against picketers
Proudly does a photo-op while destroying peoples homes
BUT AT LEAST WE CAN BE SMUG THAT WE DIDN'T SETTLE FOR LESS THAN PERFECT.
I'm not sure you understand what the word "Perfect" means. We're not asking for an angel, we're only asking for a candidate that isn't a monster. But the Democrats refuse to let us have that as an option.
- The difference is ideological. From a neoliberal perspective, Gavin is acceptable; from the position of a leftist, he is intolerable. That's basically it. Those things aren't deal breakers for them as they are for us, because those aren't issues they actually care about other than performatively.
- Sorry to break this to you, but we're down in the fucking deep end now. We're getting another monster because everyone has been like this forever. If not that monster, than another one. The system, if there still is one in a few years, is not going to flex where you want it. All of this is a consequence.
  I have been saying for decades that if we keep pushing the needle towards social progress we will get there eventually, but liberals don't want it pushed further, and leftists don't want to be patient and plant trees they won't sit in the shade of, etc, and didn't want to keep up constant, consistent pressure, they want the perfect socialist Jesus to come turn the US into a perfect, racism-free country overnight... OR NOTHING.
  Enjoy your nothing people.
  
  A lot of folks still believe someone is coming to save them. It's fascinating. But it's why we're so badly fucked, yeah.
  
  thats what the republicans think too, they think someone will reverse it once trump is done with it.
  
  This.. so much this...
  This is why I proudly left my local chapter of the Socialist Party of the USA.
  Always aiming too high and never chasing the realistic goals I kept pointing out.
  Leader of said chapter actually condemned Bernie Sanders for "refusing to encourage violence against the police" as if that was even slightly realistic to expect.
  Fuck him.
Right now is the only time to look for perfect, so why settle with fascism-lite instead of fighting for social democracy?
- Vote your ideals in the primary then hold your nose and vote for the furthest left candidate no matter who they are in the election.
  
  Nah, that will just allow them to ratfuck any progressive, again. If a conservative like Gavin wins the primary, the dems can get fucked.
  
  Harkening right back to my original question,
  Is your bath water going to be clean enough after we refill it for the tenth time this election cycle?
  
  We've seen what happens when republican-lite win; the republican agenda goes unimpeded, and then Republicans win the next election.
- Let me know how that works out.
  
  I'm behind your words 100%
  Hopefully you've never said anything politically insensitive ever when I crawl through your previous comments with a fine tooth comb.
  ;-)
We did settle for less than perfect with Biden. How's that working out? Quit calling dog meat "less than perfect steak". How about pushing for an actually decent candidate before trying to sell us on getting a shit one.
- Several points need to be made.
  While Biden was president he passed a list of progressive policies and protections that do not get covered by media, from worker protections and consumer protections and union protections. He was a lame president but he still pushed the needle according to pressure and that's literally the BEST we can hope for in this environment and people who don't get that are living in pure dreamland delusion.
  The idea is that you keep pushing the system, you get a Biden here and there, and you push the needle. Then sometimes a real progressive gets in power and builds on that progress and takes it further. You don't make this happen overnight, and as corrupt as the Democratic establishment is, their weakness is they HAVE to bow to popular pressure in some way, even if it's lame, token appeasement, you start collecting tokens. We had more progress from Democrats than republicans, and sure it would be nice to have something new, but we don't get there if you lazy fucks keep losing interest and giving up because you get tired of seeing the latest old white dude.
  The alternative is what we're experiencing now.
  And he didn't lead to Trump being elected, Trump was already elected once before, Biden was just filler between social manipulation campaigns by the far-right. Could we have countered those campaigns? Probably not, we had rising right-wing fascism for decades already, and the left mishandled that as well, not being able to read the fucking room broadly.
  He was not your bastion of leftist, socialist inclusion. We aren't getting that, ya'll need to get your head out of your asses and understand how politics is played and how deep in the shit we are.
  
  While Biden was president he passed a list of progressive policies and protections that do not get covered by media
  I'm well aware. He was the best Democratic president since FDR. He was also not a leader. It's the lack of ability to inspire that helped Trump. You don't get inspiration without good policy, but good policy isn't sufficient. Also, good policy isn't great policy, and 2020 was a time when we absolutely needed greatness. Pushing the needle was not enough.
  The fascist movement in this country (actually the world) didn't spontaneously manifest from nothing. Republicans crafted it in the vacuum left behind by weak Democrats. Any Democrat not willing to voice the reality that our enemy is the oligarchy is just more vacuum.
  The idea is that you keep pushing the system, you get a Biden here and there, and you push the needle.
  Who's idea? Why the fuck should we get our ideas from a party establishment that has completely failed to manifest that vision for over half a century? We've been "moving the needle" for decades and the problems have only gotten worse. Nevermind the morality of calling for patience while people suffer and die; the bigger problem is that it just doesn't work. How many times does that have to be demonstrated?
  they HAVE to bow to popular pressure in some way,
  How about doing it in a way that does some good? What about public pressure to stop a genocide? What about public pressure to stand up to corporations? What about showing leadership and inspiring some public pressure of their own?
  Anyways, public pressure isn't what they bow to. The entire strategy of the Democratic establishment is to serve their wealthy benefactors while giving just enough to the populous to stay in office. Biden was a better president only because he happened to be elected at a time when the populous was demanding more. His handlers allowed him to do those things, because they thought it would be enough to appease the masses.
  sure it would be nice to have something new
  Would be nice? You really just don't get it. Suffering and death are what we are talking about here. Our society is crumbling because people are being crushed and the planet itself is breaking. Frankly, you can shove "nice" up your ass. The world desperately needs real change.
  but we don't get there if you lazy fucks keep losing interest
  Fuck you too. That's not what happened. That's never what happens. That's establishment bullshit lies. Despite being constantly shit on and cheated, progressives are the most reliable voting bloc in the country, not to mention the vast majority of small dollar donors and practically the entire Democratic ground game.
  Biden was just filler between social manipulation campaigns by the far-right.
  "Filler" is the best description of Biden's presidency I've seen yet. That's exactly what he will be remembered as.
  ya'll need to get your head out of your asses and understand how politics is played and how deep in the shit we are.
  We need to get our heads out of our asses? Maybe people backing the very strategies that led us here should consider where their own heads are located.
  
  Sorry but I read that whole thing as "I am a victim whaa whaa I expect someone to come do something"
  You baby. You are a child.
  Wake up, use the tools you have. We have broken politics and broken people running shit so you either do what you can to use what's given to you or you shut up and don't complain when they send drones after you for looking at porn.
  FFS I'm not talking to pathetic victims. Bye.
  
  Wow, that's quite some takeaway. Yeah, you are the guy who knows how to do politics for sure. I'm sure that attitude will serve you well.

This.. we are looking at the very real possibility of Trump 2028 unless we support Gavin. I hate it.. but that's what it looks like.

If trump is allowed to run again, then the constitution does not matter and, likely, the elections would not matter.
Oh my fucking God, I'm having 2020 flashbacks. "Vote for Biden so we can get Trump out!". We would have been miles better off if Trump won. No more loser centrist Democrats. All it does is kick the can down the road and makes things worse.
- We would have been miles better off if Trump won
  You're off your rocker. It would have been the same shit then as now - that is to say, a setup for dictatorship. The reality is you're arguing over very minor bullshit, when you probably won't have free elections in 3 years because of Trump's current actions.
  
  Trump v2 is very different from Trump v1. The intervening years brought Trump a bevy of new alliances that he never would have developed isolated in the Whitehouse, nevermind the project 2025 blueprint. There are a myriad of reasons why this Presidency is far worse than a continuation of his first presidency would have been.
  This isn't minor, it isn't bullshit, and it isn't a one-off about Trump. Trump is a useful idiot to the people running the agenda. It didn't matter who the next Republican president was, this is what it was going to look like. This has been the Republican goal for 50+ years. Every shitty Democrat paved the way.