Politicians Will Not Save Us.

Come general election, you vote against the Nazi. I don't give a fuck if the Dem doesn't like your issue, I'll even donate to change their mind, but damn well show up and vote for them.

Unless he’s Zohran, then we clutch pearls and support the corrupt creepy predator guy.

I've heard this brought up a lot. First of all, fuck Cuomo. Any rational person should be supporting Zohran over any of the other candidates.
But also, is there an actual worry about the ticket getting split or non-votes and allowing the Republican to win? That's essentially what "vote Blue" is about.
Also, progressives have one candidate that is obviously better than the alternative, even if they don't like both. Moderates aren't necessarily convinced. It's just a different argument.
Although, if they are and they still just don't like them, I'm 100% telling them to get off their ass and vote to stop the nazis.
- is there an actual worry about the ticket getting split or non-votes and allowing the Republican to win
  Nope. The Republican candidate is perennial loser and insanely racist vigilante Curtis Sliwa. Nobody thinks he has a chance, including himself. He's purely in it for the PR and donations.
  That's essentially what "vote Blue" is about.
  Nope. That's their excuse to force "electable" (read: right wing and corrupt) candidates on voters who would much rather have someone who'll faithfully represent their wants and needs but scared of getting someone even worse.
  Adams the fascist cop (but I repeat myself) won his primaries by a fraction of a percentage (after a full court press propaganda campaign on his behalf by both major parties and all NYC-based MSM) and they were immediately falling over each other to declare him "the future of the party"
  Mamdani beats the establishment favorite in a surprise landslide and they're all pretending that he's a communist terrorist that somehow snuck in against the will of everyone.
  
  The "Vote Blue No Matter Who" is in fact about keeping Republicans out of power. I've been telling people to vote blue no matter who in reference to Mamdani, who is supported by the vast majority of state and federal democrats and trouncing all other candidates combined in polls including the Trump supporting third party Cuomo.
  The reason there is a perceived rift is because monied powers such as Israel and China WANT there to be a rift.
  
  If that's what it is about it failed. We need to move on.
  
  Yeah, it is failing, because people aren't doing it, and the result is Republicans keep winningm
  
  That's not going to change unless the DNC changes first.
  
  Then stop winging about a policy not even in place, one which would objectively save us.
  
  The hell you on about?
  
  I mean some are, and their support of Cuomo is worthy of condemnation. But it's worth pointing out 'vote blue no matter who' cuts both ways and 100% it means Mamdani.
  Broadly I hate the whole 'party' system and getting stuck with a 'team sport' mentality, but at least for now, for the national races I have to be pragmatic and steer into the skid of party politics. The local/state level I can afford to be more nuanced as for now, neither big party is as scary locally as the GOP is federally.
  
  but at least for now
  For now can last longer then any of us have been alive. Have you considered raising your standards?
Status Cuomo
- Lol, clever.

Sure, but Gavin Newsom might very well also be a Nazi. If you're from California, then you're probably aware that he's not exactly defending the the sanctuary state that he's been charged to lead. He's also kind of giving mayors carte blanche (and State-level support) to "clean up" homeless encampments, and he's publicly stated that he doesn't believe that "trans athletes should be allowed to compete against girls" in and interview with Charlie Kirk, and then recently doubled down on that.

So what do you do when both Candidates want to fuck the world?

Obviously the fascist party is accelerating things quickly, but the Democrats aren't doing anything to slow it down. Just as in every single case of a fascist takeover ever, the liberals enable the fascists. They keep trying to shift to the right to "capture voters" which literally has never worked, but they keep trying. Why?

i can't believe after the dissolution of checks and balances and the ongoing kidnapping of hispanic people nationwide we're still having this conversation.
obviously newsom is actively awful. but calling it "both candidates want to fuck the world" is so narrow-minded knowing everything that is happening to america every day right now.
it's frustrating to be an american and be given two choices who both suck. one choice sucks so much more. not playing along in this fucked up democracy puts american people in danger.
- I don't think "sucks so much more" is all that accurate though. Both candidates do want to fuck the world.
  Where were the checks and balances when the Democrats were Drone-Striking kids? Where were the checks and balances when the Democrats were mass-deporting people? Where were the Checks and balances for torture programs, killing americans, giving our tax money to their rich friends, building out surveillance programs, backing a genocide, etc?
  Yes, one side is worse, but the supposed "opposition" is doing everything they can to get as close to the worse side as they can.
  
  There are no small wins anymore. Harm reduction is important, but it's also important to understand what is happening right now. That's all I'm saying. The Democrats will not be your salvation, they will be your slow demise. The Republicans will be your quick demise. People need to take to the streets, not the ballots. If you can't see that, then you're still living in the past. Listen to yourself: "compete dissolution of checks and balances" but you still think we can reform it all better?
  C'mon, you don't seem to be that out of the loop. Surely you get it by now? I don't think you deserve to have a master
  
  not the ballots
  Go to the ballots and vote for who you want. Will it be sufficient, dunno, but it is absolutely needed to put in at least that effort.
  Historically non-democratic means of overthrowing a previously democratic systems do not end well...
  
  I'm not sure you understand my position. I'm against the Democrats and the Republicans. I don't think voting will be our solution. I'm pretty sure that I never said we can reform it, and I think we're gonna have to tear it all down and start over.
  
  Their comment reads like they responded to the wrong person.
  
  Responded to the wrong person. Sorry about that
  
  i hope your clean hands can bring home all of the people ICE disappeared
  
  You mean the organization that Obama and Biden supported, and used to disappear people?
- not playing along in this fucked up democracy puts american people in danger.
  Yet playing along seems to have led to fascism. Voting clearly is not enough, we have to take action outside of the system. Our fucked up electoral system could not be relied upon before and it definitely can't now with a fascist in office doing everything he can to rig it in his favor. We need more people to become disillusioned with our electoral system because it is dead now, and believing in the fantasy that we can vote our way out of fascism isn't going to do anyone any favors.
  
  i am pragmatic enough to understand how to do my best to reduce the harm done on my innocent countrymen
  i can do this while supporting grassroots initiatives to change the power structure.
  what's the outcome of mass disillusionment? are the Cool Socialists ready to replace the electoral system? because to me it seems way more likely that the Worse Fascists will benefit the most from mass disillusionment.
  
  I also support harm reduction and I practice it at the ballot box, I just don't think there is anything to gain by hammering people over the heads trying to sell them on harm reduction. It's completely ineffective at inspiring people to the kind of mass coordinated action that is required.
  what's the outcome of mass disillusionment?
  Disillusionment is effective at inspiring action, provided you can get people past the apathy stage. The fact is people are being disillusioned - for good reason - and fighting it is counterproductive. So long as you're focused on trying to pull people back to the center for the sake of harm reduction, you're ceding the populist narrative to the fascists.
  are the Cool Socialists ready to replace the electoral system?
  Absolutely not, which is why more people need to organize, and before they will be willing to organize they have to become disillusioned with the system.
  because to me it seems way more likely that the Worse Fascists will benefit the most from mass disillusionment.
  They will if we don't meet people where they're at like they're doing.
One person thinks trans people shouldn't be allowed to compete in sports.
The other person thinks that trans people shouldn't be allowed to live.
Please help I can't figure out how these two are different
- There is no difference. One side is just more honest
  
  I can't believe this is such a hard thing for people to understand.
  
  I'll take the side that dishonestly gives trans people their rights except for sports.
  
  Do you believe he would stop a red state from enacting and enforcing anti trans legislation?
  If the answer is no, he is not functionally different.
  
  That might make you feel good to say. But also it's a lie.
  Also, I don't have any confidence one way or another on what he would do. Neither one would surprise me. And yes, that's a problem.
  
  I mean yeah if you close your eyes everything looks the same
- I'm willing to give up my non existent dreams of Basketball Stardom to ensure my survival
and then recently doubled down on that
Wait seriously? I was really hoping he would do the opposite and call it a "lapse in judgement"

And because there are way more fascist friendly neoliberals than there are progressives it will never be someone you actually want to vote for.

This has been the pattern for my entire life and expecting this stupid country full of idiots to change is a recipe for disappointment.

Except the left has policy that directly improves the material conditions of people. Free Healthcare polls overwhelmingly better than "means-tested subsidies for insurance through 50 different marketplaces where you have no idea what you will pay at any point".
The people don't have coherent ideologies, but they know healthcare, rent, school are too expensive and wages are too low.
- Yes, that has also been the case my entire life and yet it never, ever happens and it never, ever will.
  
  It never happens because the right-wing dems oppose it more fiercely than they oppose republicans, and yall pledge to vote for them 2 years out anyway.
  
  Unless we replace the entire government too to bottom with progressives it is literally never going to happen.
  Our system of government is designed not to change so it takes a hyper-majority to do anything or consequence.
  
  Do you think the republicans haven't done anything of consequence? The US executive is literally one of the most powerful executives of any government, except like the gulf monarchies, France, and a few others.
  
  To be more accurate: Democrats and progressives can’t get shit done because they still care about the rules.
  
  Democrats only pretend to care about rules when it gives them a pretense to not do something that their base wants, but their donors don't. Biden had no problem breaking rules to keep weapons flowing to Israel when congress deadlocked. Obama had no issues violating the sovereignty of a dozen countries
  
  Exactly. So it’s never gonna happen because there aren’t enough progressives to get one elected with enough congress members to avoid getting it repealed.
  If President Bernie wanted to make universal healthcare by executive order he’d be impeached and removed from office.
  
  Which would serve to radicalize millions more Americans by showing them what a farce our democracy is.
  
  Our system of government is designed not to change so it takes a hyper-majority to do anything or consequence.
  It must be nice to be so oblivious to current events.
  
  You’re right. If you play by the rules you can’t get shit done and the left insists upon it.
Isn't that how democracy works? You try to convince the greatest number of people to agree with you, and if they don't, you lose? You can try to change the center of the curve, but if you're way over in "property is theft" land, and the greater number of people are in "healthcare should be cheap if not free," then that's going to be the policy that wins. You can be upset that more people don't agree with you, but that's what primaries are for.
- Yes which is why I hate it and want to leave.
  Except everywhere is like this because humans are unnecessarily complicated.

Your heuristic is easy to beat. A Nazi just needs to run as a Democrat, hide their true feelings until the general election, and they can trick you into voting for them every time.

You must be working for Fetterman
Well they can trick you into voting for them the first time, anyways
This goes every possible way and is a weak argument.
There's nothing stopping a Nazi from lying and pretending to be a progressive canidate either.
You made an unwinable scenario

Nah, we need to let the DNC know that conservatives are unelectable in the general so they don't ratfuck they way through the primary again. Saying it now, I will not vote for republican-lite

The way you do that is by winning the primary. If progressive candidates can't win the primary, they can't win the general. That's what makes a candidate like Zohran in NY so important. At the end of the day though, if a progressive fails to take a seat, then a corporate dem is still better than any Nazi.
- If progressive candidates can’t win the primary, they can’t win the general
  Nah, the DNC has a million tools to control the primary, from not announcing winners to banning mail-in voting during a pandemic to giving debate questions to their preferred candidate to the way questions are framed.
  We know this because they've done all hat and more.
  But even if they didnt ratfuck progressives, the primary system gives undue importance to electorally irrelevant states. There was no way South Carolina was going to vote blue, but it largely decided it in 2024.
  Bernie would have won in 2016, and would have trounced Trump in 2020 instead of Biden scraping by the skin of his ass, entirely because low-information believed democrats support free healthcare, not rounding up their neighbors to ICE camps, woman's healthcare, etc, who were then disillusioned.

And why is this even a conversation now? There is literally no reason for anyone to care about the 2028 election. I mean hell, in all likelihood you won't even get to have real elections in 2028 at this rate, so now in 2025 go do something about it.

I'll even donate to change their mind,

That... makes no sense.

Giving politicians money to change their mind is straight up how Dems operate. They're barely even shy about it.
- Yeah but you need a lot of zeros and commas on that check for them to give a damn
  
  Less than you'd think, but hey - they didn't say how much they were gonna spend.
  
  Less than I think is still more than I can spare.
  But, hey, good to know that our politics are hopelessly corrupt and can be purchased for mere hundreds of thousands of dollars and not millions.
  I’m sure those poor millionaires are happy about that.
  
  Tens, actually. But yeah

Nah i'm done playing this no sensical game. If I vote, it's for PSL and any other third party option. Not like voting for a Dem in my state of Missouri will do anything so might as well vote for who I actually want to support and stop doing the "hold your nose and vote for the slightly less bigoted fascist".

I used to think the same until Georgia flipped blue for Biden.
It's possible and better then the alternative. Hell if your vote even just helps flip a house seat it is a drastic improvement
Politics are either practical or vanity.
This attitude is why Missouri will always be red.
I hate when people cannot see they are part of the very problem they're trying to solve.
- Look at the numbers of the last election. In the Senate race, Kunce (who was actively advertising himself as a conservative running on the Dem ticket) would have needed every third party vote plus an additional 331,000 votes to beat Hawley. Why would the people here want conservative light when they can have the full thing?
  Harris would have needed every third party vote plus an additional 508,000 votes. Again someone that was trying to win over the "moderate conservative" by partying with Republicans on stage in an awful attempt at "bipartisanship". Showcasing again people here don't want conservative light. Plus, as someone who worked with the public at the time and was constantly told people's political opinions when I didn't't want to know, they all saw her as a socialist/communist even with all the surrendering she did to the conservative party. Literally would have lost nothing in the public eye if she had gone full progressive instead of "moderate conservative".
  The people I talk to who don't vote, even the ones that probably would have voted conservative if they did, don't have any faith in our current system representing them. These random people I worked with or dealt with at work who, as far as I'm aware, aren't terminally online want someone who would actually represent them. Internet libs can screech about leftists "purity testing", but that's how the average person works also. They don't like their options and know that Missouri has been red for 30 years, so why bother when the decision is made for them.
So you're actively going to help the worst fascist, even using your own opinion of the democratic politicians. That makes you an enemy.
- No, this is bullshit thinking and it has to stop! The Democrat politicians are the ones actively supporting Trump by sucking so much.
  You can support diet fascism, but you but you don't get to call it anti-fascism. And if the left is your enemy, what does that say about you?