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  • That's the price of internal consistency. Nothing you say is an argument against any of his points, you just don't want to give up the comforts you've gotten used to over the last decades. I get it, I don't want to either, but our lack of commitment is precisely why companies are able to abuse users so freely.

    • He's not giving viable alternatives! He just says "don't use this, don't do that". That's not constructive at all, just the opposite.

      Times have changed, people change, technology changes. I was against using a smart device up until about 3 or 4 years ago, until I realized how way way behind I was behind everyone and how practical it can be. While everyone was just carrying around their phone and took pics of things that they needed to remember, I had to do the same with a camera... not to mention I had to remember to bring it with me every time I might need it (and you can't always know upfront if you're gonna need it or not). On the other hand, my phone is always with me, regardless if I need a camera or not.

      This is just an example, there are so many other examples that make life easier. RMS and the FSF has nothing to offer, nothing to put on the table as a viable alternative, except "don't use that". They could have so much money flowing into the FSF just by copyright lawsuits, they could practically be swimming in money, but no, they decide to do everything on a volentary basis. You can't win if the playing field is always tilted towards the corps. You can only win if you play with their rules, and their rules are, invest money! They can have enough money to invest in devs as well, devs that will probably make a viable alternative of an OS to actually run on phones and be completely open sources, but... no, that's against their practices and beliefs 😒.

      Well, I'm sorry but, you don't offer anything, just forbid things. Maybe I really don't want to use this or that technology, but it makes my life easier, so I'd rather use it than not 🤷. Saying "don't do this, don't do that" is the exact same mentality that PM has regarding stuff that doesn't work with the browser. "Just don't visit those sites". What? It's a browser, it fails at it's primary purpose, to browse websites. I'm sorry, but that is unacceptable. When your product doesn't fulfill it's primary purpose and your only reaction is "just don't do that", you need to seriously rethink what you're doing and in which direction this project is going.

      • Why didn't you bring a small notepad, easily fitted in a pocket or small bag to take notes of things to remember, instead of a camera? Dumb phones may have had note functionalities too, I'm not sure.

        Stallman gives plenty of alternatives instead of just forbidding technology, but you're gonna brand them 'non-viable' so there's no reason to give you a list.

        • Because I'd have to remember to take a piece of paper and a pen as well 😒. Cuz who carries a piece of paper and a pen nowadays, practically no one.

          And you can't always just write down things. Let's say I'd have to write down wirings of cables. Digital cameras are a godsend regarding these things, you take a few shots before you disassemble, done deal, that's it. Instead of endlessly writing down color codes, markings and whatnot.

          The alternatives are not viable in this day and age. They take away too much time because you either do things like they were done 20+ years ago, or jumping through hoops to avoid certain things, to, once again, achieve the same thing that can be achieved in 2 clicks/taps if we just use the corps'es evil software.

          I am sorry, but that is not an alternative. It's like saying that you can't use lawnmowers or trimmers from now on, you can only use a sickle. Why? Well, they run proprietery software, thus are bad for you... would you seriously consider that, or just say "man, you're nuts!" and just continue to use them anyway?

          • Do you also consider remembering to take your wallet and phone with you a hassle? You're creating an issue where there isn't one.

            But OK, have a smartphone and use it to take photo-notes, I do that too. But I also try to use libre alternatives for software even if they are not as good as their proprietary counterparts, because that's the right thing to do for a lot of reasons.

            Also funny that you're mentioning lawnmowers, because tractors have a huge issue with proprietary software, with farmers having to resort to hacking their (bought!) vehicles in order to repair them, to avoid paying thousands of dollars to John Deere for "authorized" (read: extorted) repairs.

            You agree that the corpos are "evil" and yet you do nothing to avoid using their software, you're not willing to be discomforted in the slightest for a good cause. That's worse than Stallman's approach, in my book.

            • OK, let's consider this. One, a pen could leak oil. A phone, no. Papers in my pocket could get in the way of finding other things, like my keys for example. A phone, probably not (it's solid and stirdy and I could easily remove it from my pocket if I need to). A piece of paper can get easily lost while removing other things from my pocket. My phone, probably not. Enough reasons for ya?

              I try to use FOSS alternatives as well, even if they aren't as good as their closed source counterparts. But if they're completely unusable, no, I don't use them.

              Regarding the tractors, the same thing is happening with cars, look at the newest firmware/software limits that BMW imposes on their sports models regarding perscriptions to unlock the full potential of the car. It's the same thing, more or less. I don't agree with it, but why doesn't the FSF step up and make viable alternatives for these real world problems? what is their response to these outrageous things thay are happening nowadays? Nothing, silence. Why? Well, your guess is as good as mine, but my guess would be, one, not enough money to actually fight on the same playing field, two, not interested in things that are not in direct contact with software that can be installed on something PC compatible or at least a laptop... since, apparently, that's their thing, if it's not something that's either a PC or a laptop, they don't take an interest.

              I do a lot of things to go out of my way to use software that is not as useful as closed source counterparts, but if it's our right useless to me, no, I don't use it. And there are examples of a lot of open source and FOSS software that is useless to me in it's current form. I'm sorry, I just don't like it, it doesn't meet my needs, whatever. It's just not for me. They say, make a PR... buddy, if I make a PR, that means that I have to get involved, I've been involved in a lot of stuff for free or very little pay in my life, I'm done with that, I don't have the time to do that now. I have a family and othe real world obligations that need my attention. If other younger people can take the torch and carry on, fine. If not, hey, I'll just use the closed source app... I'd rather use the improoved FOSS alternative, but if no one is working actively on it or if it's useless to me, hey, prorietery software it is 🤷.

298 comments