Ask Lemmy @lemmy.world frosch @sh.itjust.works 1d ago

What do you put in first: Teabag or hot water?

And no, the microwave is not a valid option.

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I'm not sure why the hate for microwaves exist. It's literally just another method for making water move fast. It has absolutely no impact on the final product, as hot water is hot water no matter the heat source.
- Heating water in the mike is fine. Heating already-made tea in the mike is fine. Heating water with a teabag in it in the microwave is the vilest act.
  
  But boiling a tea bag is wrong no matter what your heat source is.
  
  You're absolutely right, but I've only seen this abominable act in a microwave... and even then only on television.
- Yes, this is one of the more bizarre cultural differences. I have seen people from the UK object strongly to Microwaving water.
  
  Microwaving food definitely affects the way it tastes because it heats unevenly. Cooking foods different ways affects the outer browning, moisture levels, etc.
  
  Heating water in a kettle on the stove, an electric kettle, a sauce pan, or a microwave doesn't change the water! If you don't want to seep tea in boiling water, then let it cool slightly first.
  
  Lots of comments on superheating, mostly to the parent comment, but I'll put a response here.
  
  You can avoid superheating by putting a reasonable time on the microwave based on the amount of water you're heating. Especially for something you do again and again, you should be able to quickly get experience with this.
  
  Common sense like this does NOT belong on the internet.
  
  True, but also disgusting and you should be ashamed.
  
  I agree, while scientifically accurate, absolutely heretical.
  
  To avoid the uneven heating just turn down the microwave power! No one does this and everyone complains about uneven heating! I get great reheating results from my microwave just by turning down the power and running it for longer.
  
  This is how microwaves used to work decades ago when they were lower power by design. Over time the microwave power arms race resulted in them getting much too powerful for even reheating.
  
  I live in the US and I strongly object to microwaving water. But I am also /really/ into tea so I avoid tea bags as much as possible.
  
  Part of the cultural difference is that US is largely 110 and the UK is 220. It’s faster and easier to use an electric kettle. In the US, the microwave heats up the water “faster” vs the stove or an electric kettle
- Water is much more likely to get supersaturated in a microwave, because water heats up in the middle of the container where there are no nucleation points. And supersaturated water heats the tea leaves above 100ºC, which can affect the flavor.
  
  I don’t believe this to be true.
  
  Edit: since the replies aren’t very polite, let me be more clear. This isn’t a concern. Any modern microwave with a turntable doesn’t have this problem
  
  And without a turntable, depending where you place the cup, the hot spot could be anywhere.
  
  Science doesn't give a fuck about your "beliefs"
  
  superheated, not supersaturated.
  
  Hmm... I thought superheating referred to heating water over 100º by pressurizing it, not by heating it at normal pressure without allowing bubbles to form.
  
  Because technically the steam is dissolved in the water above its saturation point, right? If the gas were (say) CO² instead of steam, wouldn’t “supersaturated” be the correct term?
  
  Because technically the steam is dissolved in the water above its saturation point, right? If the gas were (say) CO2 instead of steam, wouldn’t “supersaturated” be the correct term?
  
  If the gas were CO₂ instead of steam, CO₂ would be the solute, and water the solvent. In that case the term supersaturated would make sense because the solvent contains more solute than it can handle under normal conditions. The steam is not disolved in the water. The microwaved water is unable to form steam in the first place due to a lack of available nucleation sites.
  
  I thought superheating referred to heating water over 100º by pressurizing it
  
  That isn't superheating. The boiling point of a given substance naturally varies with pressure. Liquid water at 200^oC while pressurized sufficiently isn't superheated. It is just hotter than you expect it to be. That technique can be used to superheat something like water if heated over it's atmospheric boiling temperature while pressurized and then lowering the pressure without agitating it.
  
  It would only be able to heat the tea to above 100C if that point of zero nucleation remained undisturbed, and the tea held directly within it; in other words, it's not possible.
  
  Assuming there's an amount of water within the cup that is above 100C, while the rest is at or below 100C. As soon as you grab the cup out of the microwave, the water will start to slosh around in the cup, equalizing the temperature. If there are any major hot spots remaining, they will be well below 100C, and almost completely equalized when the tea bag is added.
  
  It would only be able to heat the tea to above 100C if that point of zero nucleation remained undisturbed, and the tea held directly within it; in other words, it’s not possible.
  
  To be clear, the liquid water flashes into steam as soon as it contacts the leaves, so technically it isn’t the supersaturated water itself heating the tea over 100º. But the steam it produces is above 100º, and that’s what heats the tea.
- It is not simply 'just another method to heat water'. There is a significant difference between microwaving and kettle/stovetop. Microwaving risks superheating resulting in flash boiling causing an explosion of steam and boiling water. This is also why microwaved water has foam appear when inserting anything into it. Bubbles that 'should' have formed didn't and are now doing so at the nucleation points whatever you inserted provided.
  
  That foam, while an indication the water was close to erupting, is otherwise harmless but ruins the tea/coffee for me and I'm sure others too.
  
  You just solved one of my childhood mysteries, the foam after microwaving. TIL
  
  Exactly. Also an interesting phenomenon I saw when microwaving water for tea is that, because it's so foamy and bubbly, the tea packet floats to the top when you drop it in which makes it harder to mix in the taste.
  
  Those few weeks where my kettle wasn't working were dark times.
  
  That's not what is happening. If you drop a bag into water the whole bag gets wet and seals the air inside causing it to float.
  
  Slowly lower the bag into the water so the air can escape through the dry top and it'll sink.
  
  I mean, you do you, but a quick stir would easily solve that issue.
  
  You know you can wait like 15 seconds before opening the microwave and putting something in, right? Even with my electric kettle I give it a few seconds before doing anything.
  
  Thx Tips. Waiting 15 seconds is no guarantee the water isn't superheated. If you actually want to ensure microwaved water won't erupt put a wooden toothpick or spoon in it while nuking.
  
  Do you have any statistics regarding how likely a water eruption is? Because I microwaved water daily for nearly a decade without issue.
  
  The turnstile removes most of the risk because super heating is a lot more difficult with moving water. Plus, most glasses aren't perfectly smooth and have plenty of imperfections to provide nucleation points.
  
  Explain to me how lab statistics would help? Then explain how you could generate useful statistics using the extremely non-standardized settings of every unique household in the world?
  
  Now that the absurdity of wanting statistics is set aside... Microwave caused superheating of water is a well studied and understood phenomenon. There are things that reduce the likelihood, sure: air bubbles created by modern low-flow taps, general impurity of tap water, and scratches in used containers all provide nucleation points and reduce the likelihood of superheating.
  
  All it takes is jossling a new mug so the air bubbles all float out, with a particularly clean supply of city water (or filtered is a common culprit) and that thing you've been doing for years blows up in your face at 105^oC.
- I've had microwaved water for tea a few times.
  
  For some reason the water always starts foaming up a little bit when it's from a microwave instead of a normal kettle. I don't know why or what the difference is, but I prefer non-foamy water.
  
  Water foaming when heated is caused by impurities in the water rather than the heating mechanism. So whatever is causing your water to foam is in it either way
  
  And yet I never see it when I use a kettle.
  
  And we all know what science says: if you can't see something, it isn't there!
  
  Hahaha good point. 😄
  
  Ah well, I have a decent kettle now, I don't have to use my microwave anymore to make hot water, so I'll continue to use that.
  
  It's because the microwave gets the water a bit hotter than boiling. Just give it like 15 seconds and it shouldn't foam.
- I think the issue is that the teabag has to be shocked with boiling water at 100C, not dampened in increasingly hot water. It may not taste as good.
  
  I don't know if you can boil water in a microwave, but it's not a kettle, it's a closed container and you can expect loads of vapour from boiling.
  
  Finally, microwave doesn't heat stuff evenly, so you may end up with parts of the water superheated, and explode in your face when you take out the cup from the microwave. https://products.geappliances.com/appliance/gea-support-search-content?contentId=18822#%3A~%3Atext=Microwaved+water+and+other+liquids%2Cit%2C+which+can+cause+injury
  
  You can still heat the water to your desired temp add the tea bags after. I don’t understand how your first point has relevance between a kettle vs microwaved cup
  
  Yes you can easily boil water in the microwave.
  
  The explosion isn’t a real common occurrence, otherwise you’d hear about it much more. Steam from a kettle can harm people as well
  
  I think explosions were more common with microwaves that don't have turnstiles. The movement of the water helps prevent super heating to that point.
  
  I have no turnstile in my microwave. Superheating is still a rarity. But then I do use common sense.
  
  You should try tea that isn't shocked... Green tea is especially bitter and unpleasant if the water's too hot. The recommended temperature is 80°C, if I remember right.
  
  But even black tea tastes less bitter if you use slightly rested water after boiling (and if you remove the teabag without squeezing it out). You're probably used to teas being astringent, but they don't have to be. They can be smooth and "rounded" and rich.
- Because we're better than that and electric kettles exist.
  
  While I own one, it's another appliance that takes up space.
  
  As someone who recently had their building flooded and lost power for an extended time an electric kettle can be an extremely useful tool that can be run off a more modest power source or be easily carried to a charging room where power is available. I do think it's important for every household to have one especially if you suffer frequent brownouts or boil water orders.

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