Discussing jury nullification is against the ToS of lemmy.world and will get you banned, according to worldnews mod

As per .world worldnews mod, no discussing naughty stuff like jury nullification.

While this post is blowing up, here's the book referenced by the shooter:

Delay Deny Defend - Why Insurance Companies Don't Pay Claims and What You Can Do About It

By request: Full, uncensored video of the shooting. (Fucking obviously NSFW)

Jury nullification: A practical FAQ

Do I have to answer questions about jury nullification?

You're viewing a single thread.

346 comments

It's a TOS violation to discuss one of the very real and legitimate responsibilities you have as a juror?
Like, nullification is a thing because it's very much the absolute very very last defense against bullshit laws being used against people by a corrupt judicial system.
It's a moral imperative and something anyone sitting on a jury should understand and be willing to use.
What an absurd take, especially since it sounds like it's all the .world admins having it.
- theres no faster way to get kicked out of the selection process than mentioning it.
  if you want out of jury duty, mention jury nullification and you are out of there.
  
  Unless the state has used all their strikes already.
  
  ... and in jail for contempt of court.
  If all one had to do was utter 'JN' to get out of JD for free nobody even slightly inconvenienced would ever serve.
  In reality, they dance around the fact. Ask you questions designed to get you to admit you have no 'valid' reason to nullify if you did, at which point you are either guilty of lying under oath or contempt of court.
  You have to be firm in your convictions and hold your ground with a valid justification if you are going to try using nullification awareness to weasel out of jury duty because the judge will press, and press until they either think you're a true believer of a valid reason, or are just trying to shirk your duty.
  
  Link me even one case of that happening.
  If they think you even might support nullification, they don’t want you on the jury. They wouldn’t risk that you’re joking or trying to get out of serving.
  
  Here's a particularly outrageous example. If you watch the entire video he goes on to describe a few more examples where the entire jury must be aware of what JN is but are still acting as jurors.
  
  Those are cases of attempting to encourage specific juries to nullify. You’re not gonna be held in contempt for revealing you support jury nullification during selection.
  
  held in contempt for revealing you support jury nullification during selection.
  Yes, you will. If you flat out say "I support Jury Nullification" during voir dire the judge will consider it flagrant contempt for the courts and deal with you accordingly.
  What will actually happen is you will be asked a vague question that skirts the issue like "do you have any beliefs which would render you unable to convict or acquit based on the evidence alone?". If you answer in the affirmative an explanation will be demanded at which point what will your answer be? "I support jury nullification", same deal. If you have an actual belief that gets in the way like say you abhor the death penalty they will say things like 'case is regarding a traffic ticket, your concerns do not apply. any other reasons?'. Their goal being to show that any of your reasons either do not apply, or are insufficient in the judge's eyes for you not to do your duty. At that point you'd still be a juror and if you do nullify for whatever reason there's nothing they can do afaik.
  You're dreaming if you think you wouldn't be punished for praising jury nullification in front of a judge and an entire slew of potential jurors during voir dire, when someone was handing out fliers outside the court building was convicted despite no court being in session, no actual juror receiving the pamphlet, and it held on appeals.
  TBH you want evidence, the evidence is the court system still functioning because if what you said was true it would collapse in on itself.
  
  This is pure bullshit. And that's not just my opinion, Cornell Law School explains jury nullification on their website, and lists multiple examples of it. Juries in the United States are protected, and you cannot be held responsible for refusing to convict. You will not be punished for it, and if you are, then your rights have been violated and you have a case to sue the government.
  
  I did not say you would get punished for exercising JN during deliberations. We're talking about getting OUT of jury duty, which means during the voir dire process.
  
  We’re talking about getting OUT of jury duty
  No we are not.
  
  No we are not.
  You can't even remember what this thread is about? Really. Tragically, all you had to do was scroll to the top and re-read the top of the branch to refresh your memory. Wow. Guess we know you're not a lawyer.
  
  Yes, you will. If you flat out say “I support Jury Nullification” during voir dire the judge will consider it flagrant contempt for the courts and deal with you accordingly.
  Source? Cause this is some wild shit.
  
  Cornell Law School says they're wrong.
  
  Basic logic as well. The idea that a judge will "deal with you accordingly" for having an opinion is the wild part.
  
  Wild shit eh? What do you think JN means to a judge? It means the potential jurist is defying court direction and doing so out loud in front of everyone. It is by definition contempt. You do not get to say "I will flout your instructions and ignore the law and everyone of my peers next to me should do the same" and expect an 'okay then, have a nice day'.
  To vote your conscience as an actual juror, and convince others to go along with you during deliberations is absolutely legal. Telling the law to fuck off in official sounding language prior to being an actual juror is not, and that is essentially what the statement "I support JN" is doing.
  This whole idea that there's this 1 easy trick to getting out of jury duty is a myth born from a gross misinterpretation of what actually happens vs what it sounds like should happen. Will you get out of jury duty eventually? Probably. Will it be as easy as whipping out your "I know JN exists" membership card? No way.
  Please, while we're talking 'wild shit'. Explain what you think will happen when you say "I support JN so can I please be excused?" and the judge spins, glares at you, and turns 3 shades of red. Before you answer that, this is a judge's response to a nurse simply saying she would be biased due to her experiences related to the case in question. She actually had direct, relevant reasons to say she would be likely to nullify in one direction or the other and wasn't simply saying "muh, JN, seeya".
  
  Oh found your case: https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/nv-supreme-court/2018306.html
  You might want to check it out, but here is a fun snippet:
  "OPINION
  During voir dire in this criminal case, the trial judge threw a book against the wall, cursed, and berated, yelled at, and threatened a prospective juror for expressing her belief that she could not be impartial. We conclude that such behavior and statements constitute judicial misconduct and may have discouraged other prospective jurors from answering candidly about their own biases. Because we cannot be convinced that an impartial jury was selected under these circumstances where the judge did nothing to alleviate the intimidating atmosphere that he created, we reverse and remand for a new trial."
  
  and clearly that was what was going through that nurses mind while it happened.
  
  Telling the law to fuck off in official sounding language prior to being an actual juror is not, and that is essentially what the statement “I support JN” is doing.
  You do know there is a whole thing about a US citizen having a right to tell the law to fuck off right?
  Also where did you get the "so can I please be excused" part from? No one was talking nullification in this case in order to dodge jury duty, but that they don't think the assassin should be punished.
  
  if you want out of jury duty, mention jury nullification and you are out of there.
  That's what this thread is about genius
  
  Jurors cannot be punished for an incorrect verdict in the USA (where a potential trial would be held if the guy is caught).
- It's likely not actually a TOS violation, that person commenting is almost certainly talking out of their ass, likely to try and push their own agenda and make people comply.
  
  Hey, only God may judge us!
  Apparently.
  Also crooked courts, ostensibly.
- Only god can judge the rich, haven’t you heard?
- Lemmy.world is a centrist instance. Liberals don't like the idea that people can do something that the donor class can't prevent.

346 comments