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You seem to be viewing this like its sports, I don't fucking care about who you think are "undoubtably" bad guys, as far as I'm concerned America is worse. It's getting people killed, for lines on a map, and you guys brought this on.
- Why is it the US's fault that Russia decided that Ukraine should be theirs? Does Russia have a moral obligation to not be relegated to a regional power?
  
  like seriously wtf are you attributing moral obligations to a country of millions of people.
  You know that Ukrainian cities have been getting shelled for like 8 years now, it's just that now it's not only the Ukranian government doing it.
  
  We are taking about good and bad, and whether it was bad or good that Russia invaded. Those are moral questions. So yes, we can ask whether the actions of a nation are moral.
  
  No we are not. You are talking about good and bad because that's the level you engage with politics.
  I say it's asenine to attribute moral character to the citizens of a nation of millions unless you're really prepared to have your glass house targetted.
  Are Americans guilty of its crimes? Should people consider Americans immoral because of all the genocides, slavery, and ongoing mass incarcerations?
  
  Are Americans guilty of its crimes? Should people consider Americans immoral because of all the genocides, slavery, and ongoing mass incarcerations?
  Are you incapable of comparing things? Yes the US has problems. I and others are working to fix them. That doesn't mean morality is worseless.
  
  lol all I see is a decent into fascism, you seem to be doing a shit job
  
  Hmm, I see abandoning morality as bad. Actually, whataboutism to just call everyone bad is a common tactic used by neo Nazis to say Germany wasn't that bad.
  
  you also repeatedly handwave US war crimes further in the comments, morality is nothing to you
  
  I'm trying to acknowledge that they are terrible while still staying on topic. What would you rather me do? Not condemn Russia because the US has done totally unrelated bad things? That doesn't make any sense.
  
  this is literally a post about USA bad, where you are harping "russia bad" out of nowhere. Russia is not the point of the post in any way. You are the one off topic.
  Also the US is related to almost every conflict on earth since the creation of the CIA, and are definitely ones doing bad shit in ukraine.
  
  Morality is subjective and based on one's surroundings and differs not only from culture to culture but by the individual. It's a really piss poor way ti analyze mass movements or geopolitics
  
  Applying a moral judgement to millions of people based on the actions of their government is silly.
  If you insist otherwise I'm going to start applying the same standard to you for the crimes of the ameri-anglo empire.
  
  we can ask whether the actions of a nation are moral.
  Well, if we have to speak this way, Russia’s position is the more defensible position. I sympathize for the people of Ukraine and want the war over.
  The best thing the Ukrainian government could do is make peace and let the Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics join Russia, since that’s what its citizens want.
  If you think that’s unacceptable, then the US should return Texas to Mexico before it has a right to speak on this.

580 comments